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Lights and infravision

 
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Abandoned Realms



Joined: 23 Jan 2004
Posts: 250

PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2005 1:05 am    Post subject: Lights and infravision

To give the "light" more of a gameplay purpose other than being
a permanently-worn eq slot, I have modified the way it interacts
with moving.

If the room you are exiting becomes dimmer as you leave it (that
is, there is no longer light there) its inhabitants will see
the room become dimmer.

If the room you are entering becomes brighter as you walk into it
(that is, there wasnt light, and now there is) its inhabitants will
see the room become brighter.

Besides just the cosmetic effect, this has relevance if you are
affected by INFRAVISION (since, you dont need a light to see, but
you'll still get these messages), and SNEAK, because sneaking around
in the dark with a light isn't going to work.
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Remmenon



Joined: 10 Oct 2005
Posts: 110
Location: Edmonton AB Canada

PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2005 2:11 am    Post subject: God bless you Davarius

Yep, I didn't think it possible, but The Gods have somehow found another way to keep the thieves down. Don't worry, the hiding gimping was good enough with adrenaline ( Notice how adrenaline only affects thieves and ninjas skills?) But now, even if they were somehow successful with hiding and sneaking ( which is nearly impossible anyhow even if it is "100%" You can still get found out by your light.. god forbid you were somehow able to shield your candle while sneaking around or anything like that.. nope, you now gotta stumble blindly into a room, hoping there's a player there before attempting something. Now every swinging numpty around, when they are on the lookout for a thief can just launch an area attack/spell into the room when that light enters and leaves the room. See my whole take on it is the room wouldn't get brighter if someone with a light was already standing there.. I mean does the sun get any brighter if you're standing in the middle of it and light a candle? I mean if you got one lousy candle in the room and another one walks in does it really make that big of a difference? probably not. Anyhow not like I care anymore because I deleted my supreme thief because of the gimpings but I still feel someone should fight the good fight for 'em
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"You wanna know who I am! I'm Remmenon-man!"
"My spider sense is tingling! Oh shite, it looks like everyone's out to get me."
Note from Stan: Spidey..err..Remmy's been under a lot of stress lately, dear readers!
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Davairus
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Joined: 16 Jan 2004
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2005 5:10 am    Post subject:

Maybe I wasnt quite CLEAR. So let me try to fix that.

There are only TWO ways you can fire this message off.

1) Entering dark rooms with a light (you DONT see a lit room get brighter)
2) Causing a lit room to go dark, by leaving with the ONLY light

And also, if the room is naturally bright, nothing will happen.

Make sense? If you HAVE a light, then you will NEVER see these messages when people walk in. It is only for infravision races, casters, and potion users. The vast majority of people on AR wear lights, all the time, therefore they will never see the messages. The only way you can truly milk this effectively, is to have infravision, otherwise you'd have to be standing in the dark with no light, totally blind, which is pretty damn stupid :D.

(And even in the events that you end up fighting someone who deliberately removed their light, guess what? Thats -2 damroll from their blood candle, which can then be easily stolen from their inventory, and possibly cause them a brutal shitkicking)

If you were a human thief, you might find a light cumbersome to wear, but only against naturally sneaky races and others who dont need lights. Other races need to use infravision potions too. And that isnt bad, considering that thief in the first place can pry enemy lights to dick him over, when they dont have it. furthermore, walking into a room with hide/sneak up might fire a message, but it wont step you out of hiding, and this doesnt matter in the cities anyway (where thieves belong) since theyre lit at night. Duergar and drow thieves both have infravision so for them its all good... as for everyone else, well now its worth being able to cast infravision, its worth knowing where infravision potions in the game are, its also worth going light-less with those infravision races for the extra sneakiness.

I dont mind discussing the system once its been understood properly.. hell I might even go so far as to throw in code to make hiding people automatically hide their lights, so they arent seen period (if it isnt already there), as a way to encourage people to play thieves for maximum stealth, I love that idea. But his is kind of frustrating for me to come here after a lot of thought into it, to look at feedback and find someone vent before theyve fully understood the subject matter. (At the very least, it should be apparent sneak is a lot broader than just thieves - it affects all the autosneak shit too - and thieves have skills to complement that) ..So I hope this post has helped.

overall goal.. make lights more than just permanently worn eq slot.. and underline that by fact that muds are multiplayer. to re-iterate once again the main point you missed, the associated rooms need to be dark without player lights present... which limits it considerably.
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shasha



Joined: 14 Jun 2005
Posts: 21

PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2005 5:53 pm    Post subject:

Does this mean you have other items to take the place of lights for the races/classes with infravision?
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Remmenon



Joined: 10 Oct 2005
Posts: 110
Location: Edmonton AB Canada

PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2005 6:04 pm    Post subject: Love you Davarius

Don't worry, not venting(much). Thanks for the clarification.
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"You wanna know who I am! I'm Remmenon-man!"
"My spider sense is tingling! Oh shite, it looks like everyone's out to get me."
Note from Stan: Spidey..err..Remmy's been under a lot of stress lately, dear readers!
- Dav
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divsky
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Joined: 13 Mar 2004
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Location: Iowa City, IA

PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2005 8:09 pm    Post subject:

Infravision has several bugs. The most notable of which is that several mobs (i.e. the centipedes in Moria) will still remain listed as "someone" even though you have infravision and should be able to see them. They will continue to be someone until you kill them, and then you will see their corpse.

Also, a lot of the areas have rooms that aren't properly marked as light or dark. For one I think any indoor area with a shopkeeper working in it should be lit. An example of this would be the entirity of the traveler's rest. Because of this, infravision races without a light cannot buy anything there, as the shopkeeper will only say "I can't trade with people I can't see." I find it a little odd that they would be working in complete darkness.

And I admit, infravision was a worthless ability and I think it's good that it was made important. It also adds an interesting aspect to AR that wasn't there before. However, I agree, this is a big blow on thieves and ninjas, especially non-elf/drow ones, and these are both two classes that lately have been hurting due to a major reduction in their stealth capabilities, which is what defines them as a class. I dont' nessisarily disagree with the change, but I think the fundamentals of how the stealth capabilities of ninjas and thieves function needs to be entirely reworked. Their weapon-style skills do little to ease that, because it's turned them into half-assed fighter classes instead of what they used to be - stealth classes. The ability to appear and dissapear completely at will may have been annoying, but it's what made them what they were.
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Davairus
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Joined: 16 Jan 2004
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2005 8:43 pm    Post subject:

I wish I could respond to this post with just the word 'fart'...

Infravision: Those arent bugs - its impossible to see cold-blooded (and certain other forms of) creatures via infravision. I haven't cared to make any player race cold-blooded... yet. So it doesnt matter.

Badly labelled rooms.. feel free to tell Tork of any new ones, I'm pretty sure I got them all when I spent 3 days fixing them for vamps back in early 04.

Thief/ninjas: I've already done all the analysis several months before I added the six lines of code required, quite honestly you've jumped the gun.

Simple rule of thumb - try it first, then whine later.
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Hamp



Joined: 16 Jan 2004
Posts: 212
Location: New York, USA

PostPosted: Sun Oct 16, 2005 6:32 am    Post subject:

Speaking of which how hard would it be to put in cold blooded chars.. shouldn't a slith be cold blooded being a reptilian?
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John Dyne



Joined: 01 Oct 2005
Posts: 11

PostPosted: Sun Oct 16, 2005 11:33 am    Post subject:

Okay, I've got an honest question about infravision here. Is it a different kind from the AD&D norm?

Because if it's the AD&D norm, then it's the ability to see heat, which utterly negates the 'cold blooded' thing. Everything has heat. It is impossible to be without heat, because everything has it, in a scientific sense. These creatures would give a subdued view, but would still come up on infravision.

Hell, even objects give off heat and can have a different signature than black when viewed via infravision.

This image is an example of such; a lizard seen through infravision. This is an image of a scorpion, seen through infa-vision. Note that while it's not bright, it's still visible because its temperature DOES differ slightly from the air.

But blah blah, I forgot the point I was making. Though I do remember reading this article that a guy posted in regards to how infravision works in real life and reflecting it into AD&D. Making slith cold-blooded would be interesting, but if you had to add it where they had to regulate their body temperature, it'd be kinda weird and an added hassle.
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marsd



Joined: 16 Jan 2004
Posts: 836
Location: Magewares

PostPosted: Sun Oct 16, 2005 1:58 pm    Post subject:

problem is if these changes would be added just for infravision, so much stuff could be changed:

1. slith that control body temperature to make them stand out less would fight worse, since it's the same as how all cold blooded reptiles are. colder the body temp -> less movement

2. Any warm blooded creature can douse themselves complete in water to temporary remove all traces of body heat, hence rendering themselves effectively invisible to infravision
- This means in rain, if a person is soaked he'll not emit body temperature
- Also means weather would have to play a huge part, as winter(not area!) would also mess up body temperature and sliths
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John Dyne



Joined: 01 Oct 2005
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 16, 2005 4:28 pm    Post subject:

Water will just temporarily lower the primary skin temperature, Mars, and the 'aura' around the person. It wouldn't completely douse it. Rain would maybe make it spotty, and haze up the view because of the heat the rain is absorbing, but that's it.

Snow and such would make people stand out more in comparison to the environment, and maybe slightly subdue the aura and colors.

The other stuff about being cold-blooded is spot on, and I think it'd accidentally give slith an ice weakness.
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Remmenon



Joined: 10 Oct 2005
Posts: 110
Location: Edmonton AB Canada

PostPosted: Tue Oct 25, 2005 3:28 am    Post subject: Thieves/ninjas

So, Lemme get this straight? You got new code comin in for Thieves and Ninjas? If not then you're whole theory on just try it before whining sucks because I tried it. Trust me, these new changes Don't help thieves at all.. At best it's neutral/ Bad. You don't need to get to rank 48 and feel gimped to know it. It's a fact. But if I got it all wrong again and there is new stealth code comin in for thieves/ninjas then cool. Because Uncanny attack and clobber and whatnot isn't really too great. Yah it's cool kinda.. until you can't see and then you're just a lumpy corpse on the ground cause you're adrenaline is too high and you're dodging ability has been hindered because of the new combat changes and you can't hide even though your hiding ability is "100%" Story of my life as a thief.

Anyways before you send out a blast letter Lemme just tell yah Davarius.. I still love yah Twisted Evil
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"You wanna know who I am! I'm Remmenon-man!"
"My spider sense is tingling! Oh shite, it looks like everyone's out to get me."
Note from Stan: Spidey..err..Remmy's been under a lot of stress lately, dear readers!
- Dav
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Drake



Joined: 29 Dec 2004
Posts: 25

PostPosted: Tue Oct 25, 2005 10:23 pm    Post subject:

Just make a thief with who has infravison...


is there any eq out there that grants infravision? maybe a ring or a helm?
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crazyhorse



Joined: 19 Oct 2005
Posts: 630

PostPosted: Tue Oct 25, 2005 11:20 pm    Post subject:

a pill at least. in the pill shop in seringale
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