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Half-elven paladins added. New legacies for duergar thief, d
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Abandoned Realms



Joined: 23 Jan 2004
Posts: 247

PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2005 4:16 am    Post subject: Half-elven paladins added. New legacies for duergar thief, d

You who have passed through me and the Gateway of Thera, upon you I
pronounce the latest changes to the Overlord's creations. The Stewards who
serve the Overlord have seen fit that half-elves are to be accepted into
Thera's paladin guilds, and they will enjoy suitable new RACIAL LEGACIES
forthwith. On the side of the Darkness, duergar thieves and drow
dark-knights have also gained new knowledge in the form of RACIAL LEGACIES.
The HELPful scribes will lead you to greater understanding of the Overlord's
will.
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Remmenon



Joined: 10 Oct 2005
Posts: 110
Location: Edmonton AB Canada

PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2005 2:21 am    Post subject: Oooh yah!

This is what kills me. I love this racial legacy stuff. Makes me laugh. Evil or Very Mad

Half elves are the most piece of shit race ever because the gods favor them so much. Why not have a half-drow race to balance the game out insteada all this gay goody two-shoes crap.

As for Duergar thieves... HA! that is soo fucking laughable. Mad
Why the fuck would you make a thief, let alone a duegar thief.

Thieves are so gimp so making a racial legacy for duergar thieves is the worst attempt at trying to breath life into this useless class.

God I'm soo glad I don't play this gimp game anymore, but I just love lookin in and seeing what else you guys can screw up. Oh, I tried not to post anything, but When I look and I see other guys bitching about stuff I can't help but to post and give them My support because The only reason I wasn't getting any support in posts was because I was posting what everyone else was thinking. Hey, Slade, Atleast you have a good common sense and intelligence. If you were smarter though, you'd just quit like me. Haahaahaa. Getting new people to play? gimme a break. Just try to keep your regulars.

Oh, this is just for all you stupid retards who can't think of a good comeback or insult I'll help you out and actually give you a quote on what you fags always quote me on.

WAAAAAH.

Now have fun playing your crappy games peoples.
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Sebryn



Joined: 16 Jan 2004
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2005 2:34 am    Post subject:

Quote:
Now have fun playing your crappy games peoples.

Haven't you posted multiple "I'm whining about something else and saying I'm gonna quit" messages already?

I'm confused...
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Xazappith
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2005 2:44 am    Post subject:

no offence, Remm, but I don't think you have the right to complain any more if you don't play. Complaining about something before you even give it a chance is one of the dumbest things you could do in my opinion. If you want to come back and laugh at the changes that are being implemented for those of us who are still giving the game a chance, then please, feel free, laugh all you want, but there's no need to post your complaints here because we don't care what you have to say any more. You're an outsider now if you don't play, and don't have any intention to play again.
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Adebaldi



Joined: 16 Jan 2004
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Location: Tallinn, Estonia

PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2005 2:44 am    Post subject:

And the "Mullet of the year award" goes to... ...Remmenon, for having -78 useful ideas in last 3 posts. Congratz!!!



Unfortunately I haven't got much to say about the legacies.

Only thing that poped into my mind was that after reading the helpfiles it seems that h-elf pallys legacies are better than dkn's and from looking at the stats I would say that drow dkn needs them more, but I guess I have to test them out both to see what they are really like.
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Trillian



Joined: 05 Nov 2004
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2005 4:27 am    Post subject:

Adebaldi wrote:
Only thing that poped into my mind was that after reading the helpfiles it seems that h-elf pallys legacies are better than dkn's and from looking at the stats I would say that drow dkn needs them more, but I guess I have to test them out both to see what they are really like.


For some odd reason, I think silver spider is gonna own hardcore... I'd play a drow dkn, but it'd just get gimped...
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Simpleton



Joined: 22 Jan 2004
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2005 4:05 pm    Post subject:

Funny thing is that with the changes in pallys, thiefs really aren't that bad to play now. A thief has more defenses, equal number of attacks in melee, and some other useful skills (ie uncanny, sidestep, clobber). I have had uncanny used against me and it is very powerful. Esp, for classes that can only parry (which is the majority).
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Davairus
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2005 5:01 pm    Post subject:

A good observation Simpleton. Counterbalanced thieves really only have hobble to worry about, they can dance around people without that, barrage dont affect them so they're free to focus on their sweet weapon typed skills. Just that thieves have a low max hp (by design) so they're usually done for when they're finally cornered, without the hide/sneak working 100% anymore. If I play a thief I will definitely invest in some hp eq early levels and use circle/sidestep to get the ranking done.
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Slade
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2005 10:13 pm    Post subject:

Please.. the only reason ninjas really work when it comes down to it is because of acupuncture and cure light. You don't own someone with weapon types, you compete, maybe control the fight a bit. But at some point, unless you are just completely steamrolling them (unlikely) you need to back off, heal a bit, and reengage quickly (sometimes many times throughout a fight). Even in an ideal situation for thieves (like a nice dual backstab after some pries/steals) -- rarely going to happen -- I don't see them finishing the fight in such a quick manner that the other guy can't get away or outlast somehow. Thieves just don't cut it.
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Davairus
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2005 10:28 pm    Post subject:

shrug.. I don't see a reason why not to get a dual backstab start every time on a paladin with no lag skills, or anything else without hobble/bash for that matter, so you can have your "ideal case" all the time there. As for your regen issues, there are pills, scrolls & potions for that.
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divsky
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2005 10:35 pm    Post subject:

Quote:
Funny thing is that with the changes in pallys, thiefs really aren't that bad to play now. A thief has more defenses, equal number of attacks in melee, and some other useful skills (ie uncanny, sidestep, clobber). I have had uncanny used against me and it is very powerful. Esp, for classes that can only parry (which is the majority).


I prefer thieves that play like thieves, instead of watered down warriors.
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Trillian



Joined: 05 Nov 2004
Posts: 337
Location: 127.0.0.1

PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2005 10:37 pm    Post subject:

Slade wrote:
Wall of text, something about dual backstab


Every try to hit a vuln with dual backstab?... Take out 500 hp easy.. that's more than 50%, now you're at 50% advantage, now ya just gotta run 'em down. Pie, really.. unless you get dirt kicked, then you're fuxxed.
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Davairus
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2005 1:05 am    Post subject:

What you need to do first, is break out of the mentality that a thief should be a class that should just suck in every fight because it can steal/flee/hide 100%. Because that is 100% crap. It might be because your gaming experience has been limited to AR. I dont know. I just know that it is crap. An easy flee/hide does not promote a risk-taking true thief character AT ALL. It just promotes a character thats going to Rambo like crazy because it can flee/hide rather than take any real chances. Its a source of frustration for everybody else in the game.

Incase you dont see the point yet, let me to illustrate this with invis. Suppose we removed every detect invis item from the game, every magic dust clear potion you name it, gone. Now, what is the consequence? Its this. Invoker sits invis 'peeking' with locate object to find guys with no purples, spams hellstream, guy dies, groupmates to the rescue, flee c invis. Sleep to 100%, repeat on next groupmate. Welcome to cheeseville.

Suppose that was your character, dealing with this shit. Some guy comes into your room, forces you to sleep, steals your entire inventory, and then deals 500 damage, another 200 in the next 2 rounds, and you barely get away. Dammmmmn you might say. Somehow, you escape it, and then:

Scenario A- you sit on your ass in the park, waiting for it to happen again, hoping you can bash the thief before he hits blackjack when he walks in.
Scenario B - you can be one of the people that actually try to get purples instead of sitting in the park, and get killed on the eastern road.
Scenario C - you can be too strong for the thief to defeat, so he just spams pry/flee/hide on you until you're softened up enough to meet A/B.

Something had to be done to fix that pile of dog shit.

Rather than put detect hidden items in the game, which'd mean thieves force people to keep items around and spells up for it, which they can then steal anyway, we tied this in with adrenaline, which is totally unique to them and no other class, and not just a sad clone of some already existing ability. I think this was a good decision.

As for the thief damage output/hp output, its hardly a "watered down warrior", they have a lower max hp, and therefore are much more favourable against characters that arent max hp. In other words, dual backstab first.. or catch them fighting something so you won't get hit. Take them by surprise, catch them off guard if you want to win. You must begin with the advantage, and hold on to that upper hand, coz if you lose it you can still possibly lose the match. And in the case of warriors, they can defeat you with hobble almost as easily as you can defeat low max hp'd mages with dual backstabs. This is the thief STYLE. Its what distinguishes them from other guilds. Boohoo because there's guilds that actually cause you problems to complement the one's you can so easily bully. Seriously, boo fucking hoo. The thief classes aren't made to stand toe-to-toe with fighters, they demand cunning, guile, creativity, and patience.

Incase THAT isnt clear enough, let me draw it out in the dirt for you. Warriors do consistent damage. Mages open with stronger, less predictable damage and a lower health, for a quicker and riskier fight. Hybrids are a balance between the two. Clerics do damage late-fight, after they land their dispels, mals, whatever, and change to damage spell, for a long fight.. try to keep it short as possible. Thieves do almost ALL of their damage in the first couple seconds, with dual bs, and then chip away with their melee and weapon skills, with low hp eventually making for a close and exciting fight... if you dont have the balls to stay in that kind of fight, then play something with a different style. That's WHY we have extended class selection, so that you can find something you will prefer to play. But you should understand that despite the subtle differences, we are doing our best to keep things balanced. Its a game of Pros and Cons, and thieves are no exception to that rule.
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Trillian



Joined: 05 Nov 2004
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2005 2:46 am    Post subject:

If you cna't kill 'em in 5 rounds or less, you can't kill 'em as a thief.
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Remmenon



Joined: 10 Oct 2005
Posts: 110
Location: Edmonton AB Canada

PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2005 3:09 am    Post subject: Dav.

Hey, Slade, I sympathize with you, and realize you actually have common sense and I totally agree with what you're saying Slade. Basically what you're saying is pretty much what I've been trying to point out but then there's the classic moron like Trillian who comes back with a

Quote:
Wall of text bla bla bla


which is pretty much the common theme for idiots like him.

Hey, Here's something for you Davarius. WHY DON'T YOU GO PLAY A FUCKING THIEF. Instead of playing your usual warrior. Then you'll see how gimp thieves are.

I always love it when people post retard comments about how things make sense or anything else like that, when as Xazappith put it, how would you know until you try it. So before you go reasoning how the games soo balanced with your gimp thieves, go play one and try getting somewhere productive instead of the classic mid thirties graveyard posting.
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"You wanna know who I am! I'm Remmenon-man!"
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theobserver
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2005 3:20 am    Post subject:

You do realize that imps have infinite easier ways of testing class matchups that you do right? .....right??
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Remmenon



Joined: 10 Oct 2005
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Location: Edmonton AB Canada

PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2005 4:18 am    Post subject: Oh yah?

Oh yah? Well, they don't factor in the hours of hard work just trying to get to the fiftieth rank. I mean actually go out there, and go rank up a fucking thief and then see how gimp they are. Not poof, I'm the fiftieth rank and I'm going to do battle now, Oh I lost, ooh well I didn't spend a million hours trying to practice a certain skill that doesn't work or try to get this rank.

Thanks tips.
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"You wanna know who I am! I'm Remmenon-man!"
"My spider sense is tingling! Oh shite, it looks like everyone's out to get me."
Note from Stan: Spidey..err..Remmy's been under a lot of stress lately, dear readers!
- Dav
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Remmenon



Joined: 10 Oct 2005
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Location: Edmonton AB Canada

PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2005 4:31 am    Post subject: Hey, funny thought.

Here's one from Trillian's infinitely huge comeback bag.

Davarius wrote
Quote:
Wall of text bla bla bla, defending coding


Hey, Here's a funny thought. If we had more people like divs and Slade and me posting about the truth about this crap and played the game, tried different stuff, knows how it works out and less people like think-tank simpleton who just reads what Dav posts and agrees with the reasoning.

Hey, Davarius, I swear, you post soo much on this forum defending your "idealistic" coding and how it balances out the game.

Here's an Idea Dav. Why don't you go code something good and then you won't have people speaking the truth about how gimp your codes are.

P.s. I saw Trillian giving out blow jobs for a cheeseburger at BK. He's the King!
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"You wanna know who I am! I'm Remmenon-man!"
"My spider sense is tingling! Oh shite, it looks like everyone's out to get me."
Note from Stan: Spidey..err..Remmy's been under a lot of stress lately, dear readers!
- Dav
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Slade
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2005 5:25 am    Post subject:

You are acting like a retard Rem.

Just because you don't agree with them doesn't make their arguments garbage. Dav for example has laid out some some logic behind his thinking, and it is a position that is easy to understand.

Personally, I don't buy the fact that thieves can dual backstab and run someone down with enough success to say they are balanced. I think that is more of a theoretical perspective, the reality of that happening being low. Of course people can come along and do this, as I've said before really good players can overcome just about anything and make just about anything work. But on the whole, skill level being equal, I don't think thieves stack up. Thats my opinion. One mainly based in theory, by the way, not tons of experience. I still believe I am right and wouldn't want to touch a thief (although this discussion work make it interesting to test out a bit, not even close to making it worth levelling to 50 to do it obviously), and thus they are wrong, but they still have a reasoned position.

Wheres your logic? You are just attacking people and actng stupid without really saying anything.
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Davairus
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2005 5:29 am    Post subject:

Well thats a remarkable piece of advice. As a token of appreciation for this Remmenon, how about I come to where you work, and slap the hamburger out of your hand?

There's rarely anything wrong with the things I've coded, and when there is, I fix it as quickly as my 7 second attention span allows me to. I saw an error report about shadowmeld but I didn't even code that, and I've already started trying to dig up what the specs were despite the fact its not even my mess. That is an example of my commitment to the code of AR being in working order. As for my own, I've coded to the best of my ability at all times, and never forced anybody else into a situation where they have to go back and fix things that I personally created and left severely broken for a long time. I was diligent to make sure you have no reasons to bitch about my CODING. My coding is as professional as any coder you will find contributing to a free game.

Now If you want to whine about the Combat Modules not being to your liking, then do it at Burzuk - I am doing the coding to his specifications for them and providing as helpful feedback as I can do for Burzuk and for people that have questions. I've also contributed where I can - for example savebreakers was one of my ideas - but ultimately the decisions on those things were up to Burzuk and he's the person to challenge if you don't like them. You might want to do a forum search or two for some of the posts out there, so you can see that he does defend those decisions before even asked and does a fine job about that. I'll provide one link for you:

http://abandonedrealms.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2074

Obviously I am going to defend what I have coded since I don't want to undo everything I made, and waste another entire day of my personal time as a result.

Quote:
and agrees with the reasoning.


You have conceded that my arguments DO have reasoning. But I don't see any counter-argument from you against them other than "Slade says this, and Divsky says this." Those arguments are fallacies known as "appeals to authority", and errors in logic. Would you like to try to actually refute my arguments properly? Or would you prefer to wait for Slade (who does actually reason, and is just a little unfamiliar with game) to do that? Personally, I'd much prefer the latter than have to read your infantile postings.

I remember the last time I felt I should quit AR. It was an easy choice because of little men like you, needling me with stupid comments like that. While I was gone, I remembered that I don't actually give a rat's ass what you think about me, or especially what you say about me, because the extent of your power here is just an impotent forum rage rant that makes you look unintelligent and bitter. One can only wonder what makes you feel urged to write such garbage. Drugs? Alcohol? Its really anyone's guess.

As for whether I am "idealistic" or not.. I don't think so. In fact I would say I am the least idealistic person around this group. Ideals are things that can't exist.. what exists in AR is a reality. A reality which you don't like. It is you who are idealistic. You hold an ideal that thieves should be Rambo-style gank/hide characters and dark-knight will steamroll through everybody with 3 defences fireball and pets. It is an ideal because it DOES NOT EXIST and it never will, ever again.

Quote:
go rank up a fucking thief and then see how gimp they are


Well lets see I've already played two of them at level 50, presently have one around 40 which last I played, and easily hosed some slith warrior with.. but none of this means anything to you. I have nothing to prove or learn from playing thieves. Why don't you play an uncaballed warrior and see first hand how strong they really are. If you can rule everyone else on the mud with one, I will certainly concede that they are pretty overpowered.
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