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The event "The Assault on Taekir" is beginning in 1 day, 0 hour.

Anti-ganking update for cabal guardians.

 
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Davairus
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Joined: 16 Jan 2004
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 10, 2007 10:03 am    Post subject: Anti-ganking update for cabal guardians.

This change is designed to reduce the effectiveness of huge hit/dam caballed character gankers. Cabal guardians are now armed with spells to use against their attackers.

- if you have vulnerable save maledictive, it'll detect it and curse you
- otherwise, if you have vulnerable save mental, it'll detect it and dispel
- otherwise, if you have vulnerable save afflictive, it'll detect it and lightning bolt
- otherwise, it'll just kick
- and.... it'll do this against EVERYONE it finds fighting it

The reason for introducing this is we have mandatory cabal defence rules. Everybody agreed they want it that way, nice and simple. But it becomes a brainless tactic to use. You're able to just gank someone who's a lot more naked and forced to defend, with an Imm having to step in to say you've done more than enough for one day/week, or you'd just end up con-dead. Unsurprisingly, this makes the warrior the King of Cabals, especially when set against cabals that are short on casters that will force them to reach for the saves. Not really representative at all of a cabal supposedly having a broad spectrum of members from many different guilds.

You won't be able to just easily raid and take items with uber gear. The guardians will spell you up with curses, dispel your sancs, lightning bolt itself should be kind of annoying. These guardians last long enough that this will prove to be a serious waste of potions fast.

You can't just suit in uber gear and try to harass/defend only either. The less exaggerated hit/dam teams (Lion mark comes to mind) will gradually be able to overpower your item guardian themselves with their more well-rounded items, eventually forcing a REAL confrontation on their terms in their own cabal.. where your lack of saves end up hampering your retrieve, forcing you to change your tactics.

Basically, in any situation where you raid a cabal with no saves (on your own initiative, or otherwise), you're inviting a beating from dirt kick, or big damage spell, something like that. The spells the guardian uses don't really become lethal until coupled with real players to cement the victory, of course. I could easily put hobble/dirt on these mobs, but I'd rather allow players to do something smart on their own.

It makes sense now to try to get a cabal item against greater hit/dam odds, because it guarantees you will get to fight a greatly weakened character if you are successful doing so. Mind you its in his infancy, so don't expect to see ideal results yet. Its just a drop in the ocean really, but it will definitely be enough to make people think twice about raiding you with full hit/dam and no saves.

(In addition to this, the guardians now open with CHARGE skill where appropriate to. This is because I'm tired of seeing my screen spam with alerts just because someone's being impatient. Try roleplaying.)
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Vertas



Joined: 17 Jan 2004
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Location: Ewa Beach, HI

PostPosted: Sat Feb 10, 2007 1:52 pm    Post subject:

Thats not a bad idea actually, and yes it makes sense. You get brownie points, unfortunately here at ar we don't accept brownie points, your gonna have play fl for that...

Just throwing it out there...When I run into guardian multiple times its because im knocking and fleeing inside instead of outside.
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crazyhorse



Joined: 19 Oct 2005
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2007 1:18 am    Post subject:

I think charge is beyond harsh. I mean, like vertas said. its gonna fuck people up who dont have weapon ward.
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Davairus
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2007 1:41 am    Post subject:

Its quite simple to reduce charge success, actually.
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Vertas



Joined: 17 Jan 2004
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Location: Ewa Beach, HI

PostPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2007 6:54 am    Post subject:

Well theres a solution to this. Don't like being charged? Don't let him charge you... help charge shows that it doesn't work as well against shielded opponents?
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Davairus
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Joined: 16 Jan 2004
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2007 8:24 am    Post subject:

I just replaced the charge attack with the spells, so they get a free spell for you raiding. If you have the saves like you're supposed to, it doesn't matter. Point taken about charge not being appropriate. This is a much better solution than that.
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Erlwith



Joined: 22 Mar 2006
Posts: 1626

PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2007 9:31 pm    Post subject:

Why not have the guardian charge only if there are more than one invaders?

I don't think charge is overpowered when it's 2, or 3, or 4 vs 1.

And what about confinement? Why not have the guardian block the entrance further into the cabal if someone is confined inside? The third party has to kill the guardian to proceed any further just like you have to kill the guardian to keep from being confined. It makes sense, I mean, a one on one confined fight where the guardian won't allow anyone to leave why would he just let anyone enter?
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Wholesale Johnson



Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 142

PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2007 10:18 pm    Post subject:

Yaaaaay, thank goodness. Anti-rape changes are always good news. Thanks to Grekku, Jabe, and Lothgar for this latest update.
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Davairus
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2007 3:01 am    Post subject:

We don't do uber hand-outs for people who are at times going to find themselves outgunned. Remember that cabal powers are a lot less powerful at AR than at other muds of this kind. This is why we have skills like extort, so that Legions can get their needed items through alternative routes than ganking someone with their uber cabal skills. Even abduct, possibly Legion most terrifying skill, only goes as far as forcing a quick 1 on 1. A cabal's power comes through politically - because they're people with allies, not because they have pmg-uber-confinement that allows them to stay decked because of being able to rape groups single-handed. If it was not this way, you would need to be a caballed character for the powers to compete with them.

The change for the cabal guardians may be thought of as a "quick fix" for save vs spell being pretty meaningless - even shaman's can't handle people with that sort of hit/dam, and I don't know where that leaves everyone else, but its enough to tell it can't be good. You would not think in a tactical game with magic involved that you win everyone by just having the most attack rate & damage, right? The guardian's change is something I fully expect to see going into effect on a larger scale as magic modules roll in.
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Vertas



Joined: 17 Jan 2004
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2007 4:00 am    Post subject:

Dav, that actually covered the point quite nicely.

"Remember that cabal powers are a lot less powerful at AR than at other muds of this kind"

Or as they used to be you mean.
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Davairus
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2007 9:54 pm    Post subject:

What?
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Mummy



Joined: 11 Sep 2006
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Location: Under Resatimm's Ass

PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2007 2:37 pm    Post subject:

Vertas said that you meant to say, "Remember that cabal powers are a lot less powerful than they used to be," instead of what you did. This update is insane shit. Okay? I go in spelled up and all with all those pretty pets and it dispels all my spells and then lightning bolts me. Insanely uncool to kill. Add that in with others trying to stop you and you are going to get hardcore raped....
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Davairus
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Joined: 16 Jan 2004
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2007 2:53 pm    Post subject:

If you don't want to wear six pieces of mahn-tor (instead of +15 damroll), I guess you dont have to, but please don't complain that spells hurt.
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Mummy



Joined: 11 Sep 2006
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Location: Under Resatimm's Ass

PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2007 3:08 pm    Post subject:

What is mahn-tor going to do against those dispels? Anyways, I am going to stop whining. If you wanna just let it drop, that's fine by me.
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Matthais



Joined: 05 Feb 2004
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Location: New York

PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2007 7:54 pm    Post subject:

A buff guardian is great for cabal wars. Isnt it a little overboard for the non-caballed pker flushing someone out?
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Xerties



Joined: 24 Feb 2006
Posts: 484

PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2007 12:14 am    Post subject:

Red steel vambraces+greaves+helm = -30 mental
2 griffon eyes+tongues+bracers =-48 mental

So there, you're sitting at -78 mental protection right there. You won't get dispelled through that.
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MrCarb



Joined: 20 May 2006
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2007 1:12 am    Post subject:

neither will you do any damage
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Davairus
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Joined: 16 Jan 2004
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2007 1:28 am    Post subject:

That was the idea.

Quote:
Anti-ganking update for cabal guardians.
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Telperion



Joined: 20 Oct 2006
Posts: 29

PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2007 5:51 pm    Post subject:

OH MAN! You guys might actually have to have a BALANCE betewen damage and saves! Oh no, we are ruined! Come on, you dont want -78 mental and do no damage, nor do you want 0 and do Uber pain! A happy medium, even with spells getting dispelled half or maybe 1/3 of the time seems to be...well..balanced? Am I the only one who normally wears gear like this? Is that why I suck at PK? ...maybe it is...maybe it is...
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Wholesale Johnson



Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 142

PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2007 5:50 am    Post subject:

I never have a balanced suit, there's no need. Have fun with your -25 maledictives against a warrior or a shaman, may as well replace them with hit/dam, and the extra hit/dam for a decent amount of saves. No need to always be wearing blue steel or whatever.
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