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crazyhorse
Joined: 19 Oct 2005
Posts: 627
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 Posted: Sat Mar 20, 2010 12:30 am Post subject: |
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| can non keepers wear gambled keeper gear? I assume no since they cant wear non keeper gambled items. |
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Mandor
Joined: 03 Mar 2006
Posts: 794
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| Posted: Sat Mar 20, 2010 1:27 am Post subject: |
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| kammkala6 wrote: |
| Mandor wrote: |
| kammkala6 wrote: |
I find it very very suprising that noone has thought of this scenario: Berserker gets two fiery daggers, comes in and rages, hits twice into the vuln, now dwarf replaces an item, does lose the set buffs but hey, no more vuln, and hey some more, the berserker is hitting a dwarf with fire weapons:), hitting into a resistance, doing 50% of the damage he did before when hitting into a vuln.
Same thing with anyone that has weapon ward, use a fireweapon, ward it, dwarf replaces an item and you are hitting into a resistance doing very little damage. Replace the fireweapon with a water one, ward it, dwarf replaces TT back and gets the set bonuses.
For others that dont rage or ward, its going to be a constant switchfest, is it easier to swap weapons or a bracelet:). |
On that point, if they're wearing TT, that means they have nothing better, so switching out is losing a lot of benefit for a CHANCE at going back into combat with someone still wielding the fire. |
You dont seem to understand, raged berserkers or people with warded weapons wont be swapping, so they will hit into your resist if you are a dwarf until they can swap(zerker will be dead by then) and others will still do a few rounds of very little damage.
I am not saying this wont be helpful against lets say a human warrior who has no other vuln to hit so fire is as good as any other and as a bonus vulnhitting if they do wear thews. |
raged berserkers can throw weapons and attempt relax, warded players dont get locked in combat so they can flee until it falls, or cast cancel to get rid of it, so whats the problem? If anything it'll just make fights more frustrating for both sides if people start doing it, not make it easier or a better trick for one side or the other. |
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Davairus
Implementor
Joined: 16 Jan 2004
Posts: 10348
Location: 0x0000
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| Posted: Wed Mar 31, 2010 12:32 pm Post subject: |
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Atonement has recieved a nerf tonight, which is the 3rd time I've done so. I think you should be looking for other things to point your finger at if it is bothering you anymore after this point. Its simply not responsible. You may want to consider how much additional unnecessary shit you are lugging around with you in your inventory. Gambled items and spare weapons do add up.
I did a lot of digging through items today. These stats are collected without weapons on a human 50. Weapons probably would be adding a 4/4 bonus or something.
| Code: |
naked hit/dam. = 10/10
mithril/wood/etc. = 19/23
treant thews. = 18/31 (nothing gambled or rare)
treant thews. II = 19/33 (appropriate gambles)
treant thews. III = 19/38 (awesome gambles)
wood/7 easy rares = 18/35
a lot of rares = 20/38 (this set was compliant until I added 5 rare weapons to the character..it was also sub-optimal)
rares/winter allowed = 34/36
winter/gambling = 24/53
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Keep in mind when looking at these stats that treant thews does have a fire vuln. It seems pretty but a smart player is going to outdamage you because of this vuln. Vulns are very significant aspects of combat damage, because they are direct multipliers applied AFTER all other calculations are done.
What I've found through my investigation tonight is its actually very easy to squander the bonus of your rares - or to put that another way, it is difficult to make the most out of your rare's bonuses. Things like obsidian girth, fullplate etc, comes with heavy +stat. There are these +1 to +3 str bonuses that you don't particularly need, and there's a lot of trouble to go through to access them. It basically forces you to go forge for optimal gear with the present gear that's offered, or maybe go gamble evermore to soak the stats there... or if you really have a lot of +stat, you can throw on the shaldun rusted iron items (these may look shitty but with great rares to support them, they're definitely not, and I think we do need more rares like that - common ones that are always "in").
I'm not unhappy with that situation for a player... gathering is boring, but its something to pass the time with. Rared out guys need to log some time in, and it pays off very well. What bothers me really is the limited access to rare gems, the over-dependence of keepers on TT, and the lack of point to killing Keepers for their foes. A solution that will work is to simply allow Keeper to spend rares to buy their gamble items, perhaps via a sharding process, and have the shard the same ingredient for forging. However, there remains the problem of grinding for ore. I am looking for a resolution to this at the moment. In the meantime, I advise you to make the most of your rares.. there's no point getting penalized by wearing great items if they turn out like spiked garde armor due to you squandering the bonuses.
I have chosen your difficulty optimizing your nice rares as the basis for this atonement nerf. However I also think that Keepers *not* using thews have their work seriously cut out for them without that ability at present (see the mithril/wood/etc hit/dam). The fate of the Keepers in the long-term will rest on how viable this gambling process is for them. They simply cannot keep running around in TT.. the damage is there but its a re-eq set at best with its vuln. And that leaves them with gambling. This is only working because you guys are not raring up as well as you could be.
Last edited by Davairus on Wed Mar 31, 2010 3:09 pm; edited 8 times in total |
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Vhrael
Immortal
 
Joined: 06 Jan 2006
Posts: 1085
Location: Texas
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| Posted: Wed Mar 31, 2010 12:46 pm Post subject: |
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What about weakening the ore mobs during surges? Like adding something in so that only during surge the "surge energies overwhelm their physiology" or harmonic resonance or some bullshit that makes them easier to plow through (time-wise)?
It'll do a couple of things:
- Helps out with the "grinding" aspect of gathering ore
- Gives high-level chars a specific time to log in, which helps ensure more time for high-level cabal/non-cabal conflict
- Grimforge will have more chars converging on it at the same time, which should help instigate conflict as well
Downside(s)? |
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Davairus
Implementor
Joined: 16 Jan 2004
Posts: 10348
Location: 0x0000
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| Posted: Wed Mar 31, 2010 12:52 pm Post subject: |
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| No... I was just thinking of some kinda ore-for-shards dealer.. with a cooldown.. but I wouldn't want to give out fast ore. Its something to do off-surge, not onit. |
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kammkala6
Joined: 04 Dec 2005
Posts: 98
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| Posted: Wed Mar 31, 2010 3:50 pm Post subject: |
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| The vuln on thews does not matter to many races. I have seen a dwarf get hit by fire and water from the same person, Volk vs Adwaud, fire was crap and water owned, not sure what the exact weapons were. Also why would anyone bother with fireweapons against gnomes when there is blunt available. Vs avians maybe, tho disease works like a charm also. I dont doubt the fire vuln will help vs humans, werebeasts and halfelves. |
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bassball
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Mar 31, 2010 4:04 pm Post subject: |
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kammkala, the fire vuln on TT does in fact make a difference. Seriously. It does. Sometimes it's not as bad as water vuln for dwarves, but thats cause that water vuln is hardcore. But using blunt on a human, is not gonna do as much damage as the whip of bluish fire if they're in TT. Promise. I was demon's tongue, the flame damage flail, on Hrimo. It freaking owned. So the fire vuln is hard core, just maybe less so then water vuln on dwarves because that's a bad vuln. But at the same time, longsword is better then water cube. But if you're lucky, tentacle of karakken rapes SO hard.
The fire vuln makes a difference. Promise.
So what changed Dav? You can now have more rares and not be uncompliant? Or it's based solely on hit/dam so if you're a fire giant zerker and you're only using a spiked collar and have a piss load of damroll you're still gonna be marked?
And as for the squandering rares, I think everyone does it. I've always thought the iron gear from the balrogs was super hardcore, and I'd couple it with a lot of those rares. Except you mentioned obsidian, which is anti-evil, and then the iron gear is evil only. So... |
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Mandor
Joined: 03 Mar 2006
Posts: 794
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| Posted: Wed Mar 31, 2010 7:07 pm Post subject: |
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| its probably due to the fact that its about 15-20 minutes to gear up in stuff from similar areas, but to work out a suit and put it together takes a lot of running around for 40 minutes to an hour. I like the RP and PK aspect of the game. Grinding for gear, not so much. If there were a way to make it take skill over time to get gear, I'd definitely be in favor of the former over the latter. |
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Olyn
Immortal
 
Joined: 23 Jul 2008
Posts: 3247
Location: Pennsylvania
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| Posted: Wed Mar 31, 2010 7:10 pm Post subject: |
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| Mandor wrote: |
| its probably due to the fact that its about 15-20 minutes to gear up in stuff from similar areas, but to work out a suit and put it together takes a lot of running around for 40 minutes to an hour. I like the RP and PK aspect of the game. Grinding for gear, not so much. If there were a way to make it take skill over time to get gear, I'd definitely be in favor of the former over the latter. |
Here's one way to equip: Get a quick eq suit, kill someone with better gear and less skill, full loot. |
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Mandor
Joined: 03 Mar 2006
Posts: 794
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| Posted: Wed Mar 31, 2010 7:18 pm Post subject: |
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lots of factors involved there, mostly based on alignment restrictions of both parties and the eq involved, how many people online, pk rank advantage, luck, etc etc etc, otherwise I agree.
I'm just saying  |
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Davairus
Implementor
Joined: 16 Jan 2004
Posts: 10348
Location: 0x0000
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| Posted: Wed Mar 31, 2010 10:57 pm Post subject: |
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| kammkala6 wrote: |
| The vuln on thews does not matter to many races. I have seen a dwarf get hit by fire and water from the same person, Volk vs Adwaud, fire was crap and water owned, not sure what the exact weapons were. Also why would anyone bother with fireweapons against gnomes when there is blunt available. Vs avians maybe, tho disease works like a charm also. I dont doubt the fire vuln will help vs humans, werebeasts and halfelves. |
I don't think you know what you are talking about. |
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kento
Emissary
Joined: 03 Nov 2004
Posts: 338
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| Posted: Sun Apr 11, 2010 5:04 am Post subject: |
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| Races such as human, half-elves, and werebeasts are the ones that get hit the Hardest by this. I think this was the necessary nerf Treant Thews needed, and should stop most of the complains about it being unbalanced. |
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Mandor
Joined: 03 Mar 2006
Posts: 794
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| Posted: Mon Apr 12, 2010 3:35 am Post subject: |
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well the truth is it wasn't neutral dwarf, keeper, or TT on their own that was problematic, it was the combination.
I think introducing some easy to get anti-neutral weapons with good averages would have been just as useful. |
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