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The event "The Assault on Taekir" is beginning in 1 day, 14 hours.

Should Justices be able to be invis/hidden while in cities?
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Olyn
Immortal


Joined: 23 Jul 2008
Posts: 3244
Location: Pennsylvania

PostPosted: Sat Mar 14, 2015 3:13 pm    Post subject:

Groq didn't say that, I did. There are four separate things at play here.

1. Game rules
    These are the rules established for everyone to ensure the game is fun and fair. These are viewable in helpfiles and enforced by the immortals.


2. Laws
    These have nothing to do with game rules. They are an outline of specific conducts that are against the law. Breaking these laws is *encouraged* when it fits your character's RP. These laws are viewable in helpfiles and infractions of these laws are enforced by mortal Justices. Immortals have nothing to with it.


3. Cabal guidelines
    These are the internal policies of a given cabal. These are found in helpfiles that only cabal members may read, but the mortal leader of a cabal may establish additional policies. This lets the cabal leader have some direct influence over how the cabal's duties are carried out. Members of each cabal are privy to these helpfiles and mandates, but the general public is not.


4. Player assumptions about things not in helpfiles
    These happen, but have no bearing on the other three items I listed above.


To summarize, being flagged by an invisible justice is:
1. not against game rules
2. not against the law (but your action was)
3. determined by the internal policies of the Justice cabal, of which characters outside the cabal are NOT privy
4. not relevant

If you are a Justice you can find out the answer to this question in-characater. If not, expect punishment if you break the law.
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Faelon
Emissary


Joined: 23 Feb 2006
Posts: 938
Location: Your moms house.

PostPosted: Sat Mar 14, 2015 3:47 pm    Post subject:

I figured I'd also drop this -


Currently, being an Anathema outside of Valour doesn't mean much.

Being Contracted outside Darkhaven, well that comes with a higher risk, but not much of one.

Same with Deathmarked and whatever Keepers is.


Being Wanted, comes with the highest risk and that's why it doesn't happen and why the 'Tyrranical Ruler of the City who can look after their own laws and what have you' is not going to happen. It's also why Justice rules need to be enforced by the Immortals. A full auto-looting Justice ANYWHERE you get killed? A wanted flag and you cannot purchase at stores in Timaran, Liberty, Seringale or Solace. The guard is level 50 and quite potent. Weapons you can make up on the spot, which are actually pretty badass.

This Cabal has always gotten the special shit, precisely because they are the cabal that gets the most scrutiny.

Also - the Fines system and the fact that they reap the benefit of HEFTY fines, is re-donk-u-lous.
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Oxyl



Joined: 17 Oct 2012
Posts: 127

PostPosted: Sat Mar 14, 2015 4:32 pm    Post subject:

Justices cannot full loot any time they want. That rule is in the help files already.

If you think about it, all of the Justice non-equipment benefits only directly impact other players when those other players break the law. Justices can't even use their special guards unless a criminal is actually logged on. And, Justices can't invade other cabals. Basically if you don't break the law, they're powerless.

Legion and Knights both have goodies that they can use to sway PK any time they want, regardless of Anathema or Contracted or cabal warfare related. They can invade on anyone at any time. Knights can re-equip in 30 seconds. (I'm not giving away anything that hasn't been discussed on these forums many times in the past).

In my mind, Justices have it hard up. They have the worst job because everyone always wants to push their buttons and fuck with them in town. They're limited to where they can attack people. They can't invade unless a criminal is involved.

The only time you need to worry about a Justice when you haven't broken a law is when the Justice is evil. And even then all you need to do is run into a town and they'll actually PROTECT you instead of killing you.

Lotta whining for no good reasons that I can see.
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Faelon
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Joined: 23 Feb 2006
Posts: 938
Location: Your moms house.

PostPosted: Sat Mar 14, 2015 4:40 pm    Post subject:

Oxyl, read the helpfile. Confiscation is left open to the Justice's "Judgement". So you are absolutely wrong. If a Criminal gets the WANTED flag, they can if that person is killed, confiscate all equipment if they so choose.

(EDIT)
Also - so far as I know, other cabals have the same thing with non-marked players. Most Cabal abilities aren't useful against people who aren't marked by that cabal, which it is very rare these days to see someone marked with any of the cabal markings. In fact, Warlords and Justices are the only ones who can mark whomever they want with the marked FLAG.

Also, when a player IS marked by any cabal, out of any cabal, Justice's have the best suite of skills to drop that person and the largest area of useful space to do it.

Anathema's aren't attacked in Valour by Valourian Guards.
Contracted aren't attacked in Darkhaven by Outlaws
Warlords - don't have a city.
Keepers - don't have a city.

So that leaves Justices - who have guards to slow people down if they get wanted and an ability at sufficient rank to 'entrap' someone in any area of their choosing, if they can catch them.

The cabal coffers - most coffers aren't easily filled, except through pushing through nobles, or simply farming. Justices have it easiest. Pay a fine, straight into the coffers. Pay a wanted flag, straight into the coffers.
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Olyn
Immortal


Joined: 23 Jul 2008
Posts: 3244
Location: Pennsylvania

PostPosted: Sat Mar 14, 2015 5:20 pm    Post subject:

Faelon, Please report whatever says the justice uses his own judgment when confiscating as a bug. It's outdated.
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Faelon
Emissary


Joined: 23 Feb 2006
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Location: Your moms house.

PostPosted: Sat Mar 14, 2015 5:24 pm    Post subject:

It's bugged in game.
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Olyn
Immortal


Joined: 23 Jul 2008
Posts: 3244
Location: Pennsylvania

PostPosted: Sat Mar 14, 2015 5:42 pm    Post subject:

Thanks
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Oxyl



Joined: 17 Oct 2012
Posts: 127

PostPosted: Sat Mar 14, 2015 5:59 pm    Post subject:

Errp Faelon you're right, my bad. Current helpfile currently says:

Code:

'CONFISCATION' 'CONFISCATE'

Depending on the situation of the case, equipment might be confiscated
from the corpses of criminals.  Justice members reserve the right to hold on
to certain objects depending on his or her judgment.  Since attacking any
Justice member in the confines of town, or attempting to breach the cabal is
considered an attack on the law itself, equipment will be fully confiscated
in these cases.  Criminals shall be dealt with in a harsh and severe manner.
Do not expect mercy if anyone should decide to ignore the law. 
 
Those of chaotic tendencies will have more of their items confiscated than
those who are not chaotic.
 
Any WILD ITEMS found on the corpse of a criminal will be impounded as
contraband, and will NOT be returned following an apprehension.  These items
do NOT count toward what a Justice is entitled to confiscate from a criminal.



So this is basically saying:

1) If you attack a Justice in a Protected area, or you invade, you will be full looted.

2) Justices reserve the right to choose to full loot you any other time they wish.


Sounds like Olyn is going to fix this. I think Justices should be able to full loot NON-criminals whenever they want (just like any other player can) but not full loot as part of enforcing the Law except in the case of point 1. My 2 centz.
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Davairus
Implementor


Joined: 16 Jan 2004
Posts: 10344
Location: 0x0000

PostPosted: Sat Mar 14, 2015 6:14 pm    Post subject:

i dont think it meant that hwen i read it, i thought it meant, if a justice was taking 3 rares, he would get to choose which 3
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Oxyl



Joined: 17 Oct 2012
Posts: 127

PostPosted: Sat Mar 14, 2015 6:14 pm    Post subject:

Also since when don't Valour guards attack anathemas? They did as of ~3 years ago. Sucks if they don't now.
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Ergorion



Joined: 16 Mar 2007
Posts: 2156

PostPosted: Sat Mar 14, 2015 8:50 pm    Post subject:

The boom stick of Justice is so powerful that very rarely does anyone break the law. It literally castrates all but the insane and trash characters.
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Andrael



Joined: 15 Jan 2013
Posts: 779

PostPosted: Sun Mar 15, 2015 4:41 am    Post subject:

If not, I remember a time when Fynth, literally was after 1 person, and like four other people tried to jump Fynth, and he turned around and started to beat everybody else up. It was rather hilarious. I think he got at least 3 kills that day in Seringale. No doubt, when Fynth is around everybody is obeying the law. Its just a matter of survival. Now, Kewlin is from what I've seen moderately good to pretty good.

But lets face it, not many people can hold a candle to Fynth. And honestly, if anyone remembers him, Rheloth, if he was on, you were either in town, or he was coming to get you. He was evil, and he would come after you, but he would normally request a fight with you first, instead of just boom smack dead. He was actually nice enough to not take anything but the gold you held on you, cause you know, you agreed to fight him to abate his boredom. Other than that, I haven't personally seen anyone going all silent Justice killing on people. Hell, as far as I've known, Fynth hasn't been openly aggressive to someone who wasn't WANTED, BOUNTIED, or INTRUDER.
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