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Recent shadow updates
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beia



Joined: 18 Mar 2006
Posts: 890
Location: Texas

PostPosted: Mon May 09, 2016 10:57 pm    Post subject:

Art of Condor needs to be checked out, or have a longer cool down, or cost increase, there is no reason a shadow should be able to port to any zone his target is in over and over.
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Vanisse
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Joined: 06 Jan 2006
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PostPosted: Mon May 09, 2016 11:01 pm    Post subject:

casting art of condor successfully on target should have a 24h cooldown. can you (or the shadow) provide logs where this does not occur so we can figure out where the bug is

cooldown affect is called forgotten arts
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beia



Joined: 18 Mar 2006
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PostPosted: Mon May 09, 2016 11:03 pm    Post subject:

Don't have a log but if it is still on the stream, the shadow was doing it in almost every zone, to chase down his target.
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Vanisse
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PostPosted: Mon May 09, 2016 11:10 pm    Post subject:

not seeing anything shadow related on stream, need more info to investigate. thanks in advance folks!
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divsky
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Joined: 13 Mar 2004
Posts: 1059
Location: Iowa City, IA

PostPosted: Tue May 10, 2016 3:36 pm    Post subject:

Ghostwalk needs to be toned down a little bit. I'm looking at a fight on the livestream between a shadow and a monk right now, where for 30 straight rounds the ninja was able to maintain ghostwalk and thus had complete immunity to all autoattacks. That's absolutely absurd.
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Nycticora
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Joined: 09 Feb 2013
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PostPosted: Tue May 10, 2016 4:52 pm    Post subject:

you could have copy pasted the livestream to a log so we could all look at it and discuss, but now it's scrolled off the front page and I don't feel like playing sherlock holmes to figure out whether or not you're full of shit like usual
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beia



Joined: 18 Mar 2006
Posts: 890
Location: Texas

PostPosted: Tue May 10, 2016 10:06 pm    Post subject:

I seen it to !! Ranix is just being a prick, like usual.
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Vevier
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Joined: 23 Jul 2008
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PostPosted: Tue May 10, 2016 11:50 pm    Post subject:

Without logs we can't really do much. Please include logs always where possible. If you saw it on the stream, copy/paste.

Really it's the least you can do and still be helpful. 😃
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divsky
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Joined: 13 Mar 2004
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Location: Iowa City, IA

PostPosted: Wed May 11, 2016 12:04 am    Post subject:

I logged it like 6 hours ago, it's the first log on the logboard.
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beia



Joined: 18 Mar 2006
Posts: 890
Location: Texas

PostPosted: Tue May 31, 2016 10:26 pm    Post subject:

So Dav can you take a look at the damage multipliers and stuff for shadows. It feels like there is something wrong, bug tickets have been submitted. Just feel like they are a little OP right now and need to be checked out.
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divsky
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Joined: 13 Mar 2004
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2016 12:00 am    Post subject:

I made my rant on the logboard so you can go read it there. I've only played a shadow up to level 25 but from what I've seen from playing, reading logs, and infering from the helpfiles, they just feel way too strong.

They did recently take two major nerfs: If a ki-depleting skill fails it no longer builds mana. Plus I think dav did something with sidestep building too much mana. So overall it's hard for shadows to build mana fast, which I think was needed.

Second, ghostwalk was changed to proccing once per round max.

Moves in the right direction I think. My suggestions would be to make ghostwalk similar to blur in terms of how often it procs. Shadows don't need uber defense, if anything they should be closer to a glass cannon. And right now ghostwalk is still way more powerful then ninjitsu tactics. They should be balanced and right now the best way to do that I think is to nerf ghostwalk.

And also I think the Shuriko log shows that their damage is just too much. I don't know what his hit/damroll was but he's harder rounds than a raged fire giant berserker and that doesn't seem right. I'm thinking maybe the damage from mark of shadow needs to be looked at.

It also feels like assassinate is building marks of shadow too easily. I think we should redo assassinate (again) to make it more of an execution/finisher move (it's ASSASSINATE. It's supposed to KILL them) instead of an opener. So what if instead of opening combat, assassinate is used only after full marks of shadow are built and depletes them after use for a huge chunk of damage. So the trick for a shadow would be to hold an opponent in combat long enough to build marks of shadow, and then finish them off with an assassinate.

Also would make assassinate hard as fuck to train, which is only right.
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divsky
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Joined: 13 Mar 2004
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2016 12:02 am    Post subject:

Edit: Further thought. Maybe marks of shadow don't amplify all incoming damage anymore. Instead they just increase the damage of assassinate. The more marks of shadow on your enemy, the more damage assassinate does.
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Davairus
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Joined: 16 Jan 2004
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2016 12:21 am    Post subject:

What do you mean, "damage multipliers and stuff".

I'm not playing sherlock holmes here.
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divsky
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2016 12:37 am    Post subject:

Doesn't mark of shadows amplify incoming damage? That's what I'm talking about.

But extra attacks multiply damage too. So if you're multiplying damage by mark of shadows and then multiplying that with extra attacks from shadow machine, that can add up to be a lot more damage.

Extra damage from ninjitsu would be extra base damage, not a multiplier. But even still, if you're adding a base damage increase plus two extra multipliers things can pretty easily get out of control.
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divsky
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2016 12:56 am    Post subject:

Oh and do we know how mark of shadow interacts with damage reduction? Specifically sanctuary? Is it additive of multiplicative?

Lets say mark of shadows amplifies damage by 10%. I don't know the numbers that's just a guess.

And now let's say you're dealing 100 base damage.

With sanctuary the damage is reduced to 50 damage. If mark of shadow damage amplification is additive to damage reduction, the damage reduction would be changed 40%. Meaning mark of shadow would amplify that 50 damage to 60 damage.

If mark of shadow is multiplicative with damage reduction, then you would get 50% damage reduction multiplied by 10% damage reduction which comes out to 55 damage.

So a boost of 5 damage vs a boost of 10 damage. That would mean mark of shadows is 100% more effective against an opponent using sanc. That might be why it seems like shadows are dealing absurd amounts of damage against sanced (or warlords with stance) opponents.
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divsky
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Joined: 13 Mar 2004
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2016 12:58 am    Post subject:

edit to above:

If mark of shadow is multiplicative with damage reduction, then you would get 50% damage reduction multiplied by 10% damage AMPLICATION which comes out to 55 damage.
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Davairus
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Joined: 16 Jan 2004
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2016 1:17 am    Post subject:

Damage reduction is taken into account after all the bonuses have been applied.
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Nycticora
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2016 2:02 am    Post subject:

Multiplicative damage isn't as straightforward to calculate as it seems like it is divsky. You gotta beware the order of operations and its presence or absence alters a lot of little things you might not normally spend too much thought on (like it changes how much a hitroll or damroll is worth pretty substantially). You'll have more luck with experimentation than trying to interpret the math, even if you had source access.
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beia



Joined: 18 Mar 2006
Posts: 890
Location: Texas

PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2016 4:53 pm    Post subject:

Can we have the shadow heal thing be straight up removed, they already have acupuncture, and access to scrolls that they can gain easily that heal. Also Shadows seem to have the best regeneration in the game. I do not think they need this extra healing.
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Andrael



Joined: 15 Jan 2013
Posts: 706

PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2016 8:24 pm    Post subject:

Or instead of out right removing the healing, have it heal for like a cure critical with a 6 hour cooldown/wait period. Make it be a strategic use, not some spam cannon heal.
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