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Mage training sore spots

 
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Vanisse
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Joined: 06 Jan 2006
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Location: inside a tree

PostPosted: Sat Dec 03, 2016 2:26 am    Post subject: Mage training sore spots

Since mage training has been identified as a sore spot, I think it'd be helpful to make a list of spells that are difficult to train across all the spellcasting/communing classes. The objective here is to identify and assess weaknesses, followed by designing a method to best address the whole problem rather than trying to improve on a case by case basis.

To start, spells with built-in cooldowns like:
raise corpse
animate skeleton
everlasting night
eternal day

Please add.
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ottif



Joined: 08 Jan 2015
Posts: 310

PostPosted: Sat Dec 03, 2016 5:40 am    Post subject:

AR doesn't need to be like super easy mode no offense.

And the spells you mentioned as I recall can still be AFK spammed in your guild to skill up. I think that leveling up skills is boring for mages, primarily AFK while for fighter types you can actually run around and so stuff and play the game to skill up (though I still choose AFK skilling up for fighters). I think rather than make it easier to skill these spells up maybe have them tied into some sort of quests or achievement lines that push a certain skill you may think is too difficult for a class up 10% or 15% or something.
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Vanisse
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 03, 2016 6:47 am    Post subject:

I don't think you can spam train animate corpse, given 24h lag and requirement of a dead thing for the spell to work. But yeah, if you have alternative ideas feel free to post.
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Ergorion



Joined: 16 Mar 2007
Posts: 2156

PostPosted: Sat Dec 03, 2016 7:05 am    Post subject:

So long as you use mana when you try to cast a spell, you have a chance to increase your proficiency. Even if you're within a cooldown period you can improve it. That method worked with harm the last time I had a shaman and it might work with animate corpse. It's just that the mana cost is wicked high with some spells which would slow spamming down a bit. Just grab a tent.
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Kedaleam
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Joined: 25 Mar 2006
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 03, 2016 10:05 am    Post subject:

I'm okay with making enemies if needed:

Okay, so everyone has an issue with mage learning being 'tough'... The way I see it is, their spells/skills are more important. The whole "OMG ITS SO HARD TO AFK TRAIN" really needs to stop. I've had many characters now, and mages are likely my favorite, fighters turn out the best, but mages fit my playstyle (personal statement, yes).

ANIMATE DEAD: Are you serious? It's one of the most powerful spells in the game. It should EASILY be the hardest to master, especially with it's empower. "You failed animating that corpse?" Oh darn, been their it sucks. Rest up your HP/MANA and you'll be solid by the time it is all full again.

*My only complaint with this spells is based on cabals. I would never recommend a necro to cabal, since if you log on and can't do shit, you're so amazingly screwed. That's where their CD screws them. Their hasn't been a good Caballed Necro in decades. Apologies to the ones that appeared when their factions were kicking ass.

**You should never have to accomadate a ability/spell/power in the game to better fit that class because it might be in a cabal though. Just leave it.


All of that has to do with the necro spells/abilities. Last I knew when you select necro, it tells you "HEY DONT BE A NOOB, KTHX" If it doesn't, it should again, really. Necro is legitimate EZ mode if you're not caballed. Hell, Uvet proved it beyond belief. Don't get me wrong, Uvet was legit pro. How she worked the whole recall/summon/vamp/gather the zombies again was was beyond my understanding most times. But I dare Xenyar, I believe, I could be wrong, to do it with a Legion. I guarantee it would be less than the 90%+ K/D that Uvet had. With him, it would be high though, especially with the clear cut understanding of the class, not a doubt in my mind. Unless you log on early and can manage to build the army correctly. Actually, as I type this, I bet he could do phenomenal in LEGION. Necro really doesn't need to revolve around zombies as much as it should.

As for the EVERLASTING DAY/NIGHT:

Let's be honest. These spells do nothing at all, unless VAMPIRE focused. If the ETERNAL DAY causes them to constantly take the damage from the sun(OFFENSIVE), or if you're grouped with them and their EVERLASTING NIGHT(DEFENSIVE) makes it so you don't have to hide during the day. I, personally see no reason to have a ridiculous CD on this, but it would certainly need one with the power it COULD inflict.

STRENGTH UNDAMNED:

Are you serious? Don't be stupid. and I hope I lost everyone not important a paragraph or two ago.


Well, crap, I'm drunk. I might need a redirect to the nearest music lounge. I don't want to try to figure out this stuff.
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Ergorion



Joined: 16 Mar 2007
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 03, 2016 4:17 pm    Post subject:

^----- +1
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tayyah



Joined: 20 May 2011
Posts: 597

PostPosted: Sat Dec 03, 2016 4:57 pm    Post subject:

I always compared the hard to master spells to skills like berserk and warcry, such critical skills but very hard to master. I thought that this was the design intended? I do sway more towards the warrior, but I did have an illusionist in justice in the last year and had many spells mastered at 25. I guess I had slow but I have played a ton of shamans in my time and spells master from use just as much as skills. The only thing I could think would be to take a look at all the mana costs, but you guys probably already have many times on all classes. I love the way skills work in the game, getting shit to 100% is the reason I play but I love that when I put in the time to get my characters trained I have a leg up on newer chars that don't have that yet. Or tricks that I have figured out to master certain things that other people haven't. Seems like general consensus so far though is to leave it the way it is
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Vanisse
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 03, 2016 5:11 pm    Post subject:

ok. no need then. easy
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Nycticora



Joined: 09 Feb 2013
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 03, 2016 10:11 pm    Post subject:

it doesn't matter whether or not you have most spells mastered. It doesn't really matter if you lose concentration casting animate dead or remove curse. Your regular buffs will master themselves over time with no effort, so the only spells we care about are spells that you actually really do want to master and have trouble with.

Rather than pushing back and saying spells shouldn't be too easy to train (we know!) lets see if we can find any outliers that are a problem. Like has anything gotten messed up lately with domains on clerics, or are all the invoker spells leveling properly with use after the rework, or are there any ninja spells that wake sleeping people up when they shouldn't, etc.

It sounds like the gain rate on berserk and warcry might be a little off
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Ergorion



Joined: 16 Mar 2007
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 03, 2016 10:26 pm    Post subject:

I think warcry is fine. I've always had difficulty training berserk. But that's mostly because I never really gave a shit about it.
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Merlandox



Joined: 31 Mar 2016
Posts: 258

PostPosted: Sun Dec 04, 2016 5:01 am    Post subject:

Everlasting day - I have never succeeded using it. Not even once. And failing it puts it on a 24 hour cooldown. Haha, but you know, whatever, this spell doesn't even matter.
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ottif



Joined: 08 Jan 2015
Posts: 310

PostPosted: Sun Dec 04, 2016 5:18 am    Post subject:

I mastered animate corpse casting it on a sword I'm pretty sure. berserk does level slow but it seems hella powerful to me and has won me fights at the last minute more than once so I think it is pretty on target.
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