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mania/machine: shot in the dark

 
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Davairus
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Joined: 16 Jan 2004
Posts: 10344
Location: 0x0000

PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2017 9:27 pm    Post subject: mania/machine: shot in the dark

A potentially wonderful thought just occured to me today. Would you guys be happier with mania/shadow machine if they doubled those weapon bonuses instead of the attacks? I mean like if youre in mania then all your combat advantages are doubled and if youre in shadow machine then all your weapon advantages are doubled.

Let me know if this sounds like something to get excited about. Please note that this is strictly meant in the spirit of making the game more fun for everyone and not meant to be shitting on these classes. If I had thought of this when I made these skills I would've probably done it already!

I like this because its definitely still a form of haste but the enemy player can neutralize it.

shadow machine + chaotic daggers = shit flying all over

Please post your thoughts.
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Andrael



Joined: 15 Jan 2013
Posts: 779

PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2017 12:41 am    Post subject:

Hmm, sounds fun. I'm up for it, to test at least if not then revert it back.
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Merlandox



Joined: 31 Mar 2016
Posts: 258

PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2017 4:26 am    Post subject:

What about weapon wards and monks?
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Nycticora



Joined: 09 Feb 2013
Posts: 2277

PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2017 5:05 am    Post subject:

I'm starting to think this might be a little on the underpowered side if there's a way to mitigate it. Maybe you can reduce the amount of HP damage dealt by mania when you do this (half or once every other round instead of every combat round?)

That would help address some of the complaints I've been hearing about Mania being too costly to use while ranking and leaving the user at 1hp too quickly. That's a noob trap, a noob has to learn not to use that skill the hard way. This type of lesson has been part of berserkers for a long time though (rage and can't flee, etc) so maybe this should stay. I'm leaning towards lowering that hp cost though
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Trojal



Joined: 19 Jan 2004
Posts: 25

PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2017 5:26 am    Post subject:

Would it do anything beneficial in neutral stance or only during advantage?

I believe when fighting many mobs (stance/weapon as mob/mob) it counts as neutral in terms of advantages.

Another case would be a berserker fighting a dark knight with a two-handed polearm. According to combat style, the berserker would need to use a shield and not be in rage to have combat style advantage. It would be nice to have some use for the skill if the berserker goes in two-handed in this case.

Personally, I don't like the weapon type system (blade / shaft / segment) and skills that only work if you're exploiting weapon types.
I like the combat style system (two-hand / dual-wield / defensive) and skills that only work if you're exploiting combat style.
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Nycticora



Joined: 09 Feb 2013
Posts: 2277

PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2017 8:09 am    Post subject:

mob weapon style should probably come out one of these days, it's horrible and teaches new players to be wrong

I agree on the blade/shaft/segment thing, it's stupid. Those bonuses/penalties are already baked into parry. I don't know why a whole system was added instead of just making skills that rely on it parryable. But hindsight is 20/20
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Davairus
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Joined: 16 Jan 2004
Posts: 10344
Location: 0x0000

PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2017 8:58 am    Post subject:

Would be happy with combat styles as the only skills triangle, think if we go that way its best if rogues also get skills to invert it and outplay people that way, so like for example you could counterbalance, flip the matchup somehow and dunk someone with sidesteps while theyre busy dualing. Maybe just get it by knocking them senseless with blackjack.. or use shadow tactics (rename to shadow mirror). Maybe some weapons like nunchuk would begin inverted so really confusing right away as the rogue is in offensive counterbalance and you cant overhead his ass because hes not dual wielding, and then he goes sidestepping and fucks shit up. It would frustrate people to be jockeying for advantage the long way while the rogue has a trivial way to do it

I reallylike the weapon advantage thing in parry though. I always have. Every skill else i dont care but thats been a nice clutch thing you can pull off and feel satisfied with on any class. And it made it require more thought when getting rare stuff instead of just running for the vorpal on your dwarf warrior to get blasted with water cubes hitting harder
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ivindel



Joined: 20 Nov 2015
Posts: 163
Location: Singapore

PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2017 9:34 am    Post subject:

As of now, sidestep, clobber and uncanny are the 3 main skills that thieves and shadows have for exploiting weapon type advantages. If you do away with the weapon type triangle, then these skills will probably have to change too.

My feel is that these skills (as they are now) are pretty handy and fun to use since they make use of a different advantage triangle, which sets them away from the combat style system and gives them a unique feel. Using a single handed or two-handed shaft to clobber also nets different effects, the same goes for single and two-handed uncanny in segmented.

Of course, if you want to do away with it, fire away. As of now, combat style advantage doesn't net any significant bonuses anyway.
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