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[2018 Q3] Levelling : Too easy
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twerpalina

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Joined: 16 Mar 2018
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Location: Utrecht, Netherlands

PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2018 10:32 pm    Post subject:

My opinion probably doesn't have much weight, but from what I've seen in last 2 months of being a semi-active player, I believe that the "surge system" offers a great incentive for people to log in at certain times of day even when they do not plan to exp or train during that time. It's like a certain time when few times a week a lot of stuff can happen, equipment and power swap hands and your previous relations matter even more, because you wouldn't want that drow you ganked to ruin your surge-time each time.

Also, due to fact that you guys have a fairly bit smaller playerbase than I'm used to, I didn't find low levels so interesting because there's barely any people you can hang out with in your level range. There's 1 level 10, 1 level 25 training, 1 level 40 and couple of level 50s - none of them really interact because their current objectives are different. But put them all at level 50 and they suddenly have an incentive to interact in one way or another. Now if you'd had a bunch of people at different level ranges I'd be super happy to spend 200 hours on leveling up a char (which I've actually done in my home mud a few times back in the day when we also had more players), sadly that's not the case though. Many times you're forced to grind by yourself in solitude.

But that's just my view on things.
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Davairus
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Joined: 16 Jan 2004
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PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2018 4:25 am    Post subject:

What if instead of an "all or nothing" noexp flag (which we can keep), you can set your exp to anywhere between 0-100% and receive the rest as gold. that way you can (a) group without being powerlevelled, but still get somewhere if you want to (b) get incredibly rich (spend on the monster pot). I believe there is already an arena in Seringale where you can challenge monsters with gold coins entrance fee to earn medals (spent for training bonus and scarecrow) so this seems like it neatly closes the system
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Niusan
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Joined: 07 Jun 2010
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Location: Little Rhody

PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2018 4:02 pm    Post subject:

I like this idea, Dav. It can help characters take some time and increase their skill percentages while getting money to buy monster potions so they can have an easier time solo leveling up. I've been leveling and playing quite a few morts, re-familiarizing myself with the game, and I would definitely appreciate something like this.
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Vertas



Joined: 17 Jan 2004
Posts: 1168
Location: Ewa Beach, HI

PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2018 9:32 pm    Post subject:

Wait, what is this about this monster arena? This is news to me.
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Davairus
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2018 6:42 am    Post subject:

After more complaints in the graveyard that exp was way too easy nowadays, I checked into it. I found that I put in a deliberate exp buff, to help offset the rising monster hp. I think having this bonus is important, and very necessary for the feel of the game. However, at the time implemented there was neither quest rewards, erudition or overlord boss kills available.
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ottif



Joined: 08 Jan 2015
Posts: 310

PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2018 5:23 am    Post subject:

Fast leveling at this point almost seems like a necessity. MUDs that used to be so friggin hard to level now allow you to script and level up easy. Same for MMOs. Only the old hens want leveling to be harder to preserve their advantage over the new guys.
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Ergorion



Joined: 16 Mar 2007
Posts: 2156

PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2018 2:06 pm    Post subject:

The penalty for just screaming to 50 is that you are poorly trained. The time sink comes if you want to fully master your skills and spend hours and hours at the training dummy or whatever you do.
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BlackWidow



Joined: 24 Apr 2014
Posts: 470
Location: Yes

PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2018 3:21 pm    Post subject:

Well, at least we have the noexp command now. If you want to master skills, you can stay at a far lower level and generally have no pressure. But it depends on the patience you have, how far you are willing to go, etc.
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Vevier
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Joined: 23 Jul 2008
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2018 4:20 pm    Post subject:

My concern with the exp is that low levels go by too fast to get familiar with new skills. I rolled a class I'd never played and power ranked to 30ish then saw a whole bunch of new skills that I had to stop and figure out. It helps a lot to show the new skills on level up, but I don't know if that's enough. Granted that there are other issues with using new skills, like needing to go and practice...and i do understand thati could put on noexp, but I'm addicted to the level-up endorphins like the rest of you. :/

My other issue with how easy it is to level comes down to opportunity cost. Its so easy to level and train, even solo, so why go explore new areas? Why do quests? I believe theres a method to get direction on secrets now, so even less incentive to explore (even though we have no more exp holes, so the penalty for exploring is significantly lowered).
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Ergorion



Joined: 16 Mar 2007
Posts: 2156

PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2018 6:01 pm    Post subject:

To build on Vev's exploration point, perhaps there could be quests in some of the higher end areas of the game that lead to both equipment and experience.

Thoughts here are the battlezone, maybe zodiac island, shadun dalgul, dal kadar. Something where a group of level 40s would be able to make some progress.

In those areas, a player/group of players could trigger a quest where:
(1) killing some of the underbosses would grant a small non-multipliable bonus (so a reward/surge wouldn't affect the quest bonus) e.g. killing a demon in the battlezone results in automatic exp of 100 per on top of whatever you get for killing it
(2) reaching certain checkpoints in the area would result in an exp gain, could be connected to unlocking doors, killing lesser boss mobs, performing some ritual at sporadically placed altars
(3) killing a boss mob would be like overlord's favor but on steroids and potentially result in equipment

For something like advanced areas, these bonuses could be standard regardless of how large the group is, so you could take a party of 5 level 42s into the underworld and come away with both solid exp and decent eq.


Edit and addition: one thought that came to mind regarding the underworld, after you collect the two keys from the western and eastern branches, your party unleashes swarm (15-20) of lesser non-aggressive demons that move quickly and randomly around the entrances, are not terribly hard to kill (like three rounds of a full group), and result in like 50-100xp per demon. They would disappear after like 6 - 12 ticks.
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Vevier
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Joined: 23 Jul 2008
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2018 7:47 pm    Post subject:

I really like those ideas. I would love to tie immersive questing to leveling and eq gain...right now, overlords with gambled eq provide some of that.

Its a lot of work to do right. I'd start with lowbie areas before modifying end game content.
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Ergorion



Joined: 16 Mar 2007
Posts: 2156

PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2018 9:16 pm    Post subject:

Thought jumped into my head for Drkshyre:
when Rockwort gets attacked, he yells out to the pyromancer to start torching the forest. The pyromancer begins walking around Drkshyre at some rate of speed and sets a wildfire in every third room he walks to. He continues to do this until Rockwort is killed or the group stops fighting him.

The fires will injure you slightly when you walk into the room and can be quenched by pouring out a source of water on them. Your group gains experience with each quenched fire.

If left unattended, the fires have a chance to spread one room in each direction at some random interval. And if the area has more than say, 5 - 10 fires at any given time, everyone in the area gets hit with damage proportionate to the number of fires.

This gives your group options:
(a) kill Rockwort quickly and get the overlord buff then put out a couple fires quickly,
(b) have one groupmate keep Rockwort engaged while the other two fight fires,
(c) kill Rockwort and then manage the fires so that they spread but you don't extinguish them all so you get fighting free experience

Side note to this idea: it makes fleeing through Drkshyre or fighting in Drkshyre more risky for upper level characters when there's a group of lowbies ranking there. Could cap the damage from fires to levels 30 and under or something if this is undesirable.
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asudan



Joined: 13 Apr 2014
Posts: 82

PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2018 2:26 am    Post subject:

I would hate to see it FORCED into game play where it has to be tied into leveling or even training. It is still hard to solo grind to 50 on your own.(40-50 range). If players were given a choice for it to be optional, that I would be fine with. Also, with the new area thing, being an old vet, having to learn new areas is not a thrill and I personally have zero interest in re-learning a mud, regardless of what it has to offer. -exp-armor-whatever. I like the lands being original as possible. With such a low player base now, and most members being older and having less time, I honestly think it's a waste of time in my personal opinion. Still sighing every time I have to go into the new high tower.
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Ergorion



Joined: 16 Mar 2007
Posts: 2156

PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2018 2:42 am    Post subject:

I don't think anyone is saying this would be stuff you have to do to rank. I'm suggesting optional stuff that would add some different flavors to ranking as opposed to the just run through hundreds of nymphs, then rangers, then medics.
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Nycticora



Joined: 09 Feb 2013
Posts: 2277

PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2018 3:33 am    Post subject:

These ideas are all terrible. I think we should have tea pots, and folding tables so anywhere you go you should be able to have a tea party with your buddies before (or after) you go gangbanging
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BlackWidow



Joined: 24 Apr 2014
Posts: 470
Location: Yes

PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2018 11:05 pm    Post subject:

Haha, Nycticora that is so funny...

But regarding levelling (and this opinion is mostly based on stuff years ago), I *mostly* soloed my Mystic necromancer (other than a couple levels in the 30s when I was with a berserker). It wasn't hard once I figured it out... I finished it one Memorial Day week from 38, making at least one level's progress per day (sometimes two or three) within a week and a half I think it was. This included surges, an event which doubled xp gains, and a couple of guild rewards iirc.

Invokers are especially easy to level (though I found when mana shield/barrier did not block vulnerabilities that drow invokers were less than ideal). Just select an enemy which does magic damage, and mana shield will allow them to tank it easily (paladins are a good choice in Tainted Valley).

Dark-knights can also handle solo advancement even at the higher levels. I did my last level as Beljia by killing paladins one at a time, quaffing a vial of crimson blood each time with unholy strength, while wielding Mourneblade. Even without Mourneblade it's still quite possible for a dark-knight to do this most likely.

I am sure a lot of other classes could solo as well. Both types of rogues come to mind (when one potion wears off, hold and quaff another while using counterbalance).

Overall though, I'm not sure what I'd say about ranking difficulty. I think it is fine in general though.
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Nycticora



Joined: 09 Feb 2013
Posts: 2277

PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2018 5:57 pm    Post subject:

We've fixed several leveling bugs and added some display output to help players debug cases of "too much xp".

If you know of areas where we need to slow leveling down a bit or add content in order to pad out the grind, please make an update and this will be addressed.

In the mean time, I'll be adding many random item spawns and collectible objects to the game which will be valuable enough for groups of players to want to collect. These items should be valuable enough to slow leveling as players hunt down the items after doing ranking loops, slowing down repops and therefore slowing leveling while also providing the players valuable content.
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Davairus
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Joined: 16 Jan 2004
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 7:54 pm    Post subject:

I cut the multiplier I mentioned to roughly 1/3 of what it was. This is heavy but I felt very necessary because there are many, many other ways to get exp bonus now, and we are planning add more new ones. I took having these bonuses and the easiness gripes all into account and I'm aiming to get that bonus up to about 150% after grabbing any available bonuses. So it back where I originally intended.
This will go into effect with the patch drop.
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