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Giant Cleric Spell Training Ridiculously Slow

 
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AnOldSoul



Joined: 24 Jan 2016
Posts: 43

PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2019 1:39 am    Post subject: Giant Cleric Spell Training Ridiculously Slow

As the subject reads, giant spell training is super duper ridiculously slow.

I'm talking two skill ups for an entire quest fantastic training boost, with non-stop casting when I wasn't sleeping. With over 50 secrets.

The str/con stats don't even come close to making up for the immense time investment that would be be required to play this character.

Suggestion: Keep their INT/WIS the same so that their level gains are still shit and their max mana at pinnacle, but give them some sort of racial bonus that helps them train their spells.

As it stands, no one plays the available combos for any length of time (that I've seen), and I'd guess that this is the primary reason. I don't plan on continue with this character any further because of it.
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Kedaleam
Immortal


Joined: 25 Mar 2006
Posts: 989
Location: Michigan

PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2019 3:58 am    Post subject:

We added the training boost for any account. 50 secrets, isn't gonna help much. Will it be better than no secrets? Hell yeah. But this sounds like a general complaint about the race. The issue used to be that something like a one trained fire giant shaman used to completely kick ass. Perhaps we could look in to giant vulns again or something, but generally, this isn't an issue. It's there for a reason and I don't see a reason for change. Seems like you want to complain that the race you picked isn't up to your standards when you could pick an entirely different one.
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AnOldSoul



Joined: 24 Jan 2016
Posts: 43

PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2019 7:29 am    Post subject:

Man, I have yet to encounter an Imm who has been able to have an actual discussion and not accuse people of complaining.

Can we actually engage in a conversation?

You're asserting that a single Shaman - in one instance - kicked ass... Cool? I guess I don't understand how that's really relevant to my comment.

You're also criticizing me a player by saying I'm whining, rather than addressing my idea.

Forum Rule Rule #2: DON'T attack (ad hominem) other users. Address the subject or point of view, not the person."

Maybe someone could point to some testing that has been done around the issue to say that it's in line with where it should be even if it does feel steep, maybe you could point to a period of time where there was an influx of giants taking advantage of easy training.. Maybe you could engage in an actual conversation about my comment and the experience I'm having with the game, rather than choosing to criticize me and be a fucking dick.
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Kedaleam
Immortal


Joined: 25 Mar 2006
Posts: 989
Location: Michigan

PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2019 1:50 pm    Post subject:

I believe some time ago, there was consideration for more racial legacies to be put in to play. Perhaps that could still be a thing? But, if you think there is an actual issue with their learning, then bug it in game and i'm sure someone would look in to it. Worst thing that comes out, aside from my previous post, is they would say it's working as intended.

I've personally never had an issue with training giants(clerics and warriors both), and I've played them a ton even before the secrets bonus was a thing. Maybe you had a bit of bad luck during the boost which is crappy but it does happens as well. I'm sure most people can tell you similar stories of their learning/training.
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Olyn
Immortal


Joined: 23 Jul 2008
Posts: 3244
Location: Pennsylvania

PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2019 2:43 pm    Post subject:

When playing and training my last few serious mortals, I noted that the difference in training rate from human to half-elf felt more pronounced than the difference between giant and human. Since then, we've taken that old half-elf bonus and it applied it to all characters in a rate proportional to their secrets found (this is account-based). For what it's worth, I master my skills from 1 practice with every character (even on giants) and never had a problem doing so. That was all in the era before secrets helped. I recommend exploring areas and try to get 100+ secrets. Maybe another player can comment on what it takes to become a Master Explorer these days.

Additionally, there is a flat boost to training rates somewhere around level 36 and another, more significant boost in rate at level 50. What level are you training at?

Take advantages of surges, quest rewards, and the training boosts you can purchase from the juggernaut, and be sure to use every other training advantage you can. These include: if training a skill/spell in combat, you'll have more success against a higher level opponent. If your character has a friend/ally with the same skill/spell, train together in a group for additional chance to gain.

We're always considering new racial legacies for certain combos, but I don't think arbitrarily boosting training rate as a legacy is on the table. There's definitely a trade-off for the strength bonus you get from being a giant, and training is part of it. The mental vuln is already nerfed pretty dramatically from where it was with the cutback in available mental weapons. Recent patches have seen shaman get enhanced damage back, increasing the return on that extra strength, and cure spells costing less mana for all, somewhat mitigating the smaller mana pool for giants.
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Lorne
Immortal


Joined: 20 Jan 2004
Posts: 456

PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2019 12:07 pm    Post subject:

I've played my fair amount of giants, they are probably my most favorite race, the majority of my HoE characters/successful characters have been giant based.

I've also 1 prac'ed them, that is how you unlock the true potential of giants. They have an inherent ease in PvE with most creatures doing physical damage, so they can be efficient tanks in any capacity, and the their big strength obviously gives them massive damage boosts. Actually, if you level a high int/wis race to 50 and pour all your trains to hp, or 2/3 prac a giant to 50 and pour the rest to trains, the HP at the end is about the same.

So that is why to unlock the full potential of giants, you have to 1-prac it. It isn't meant to be easy to 1-prac a giant, cuz then alot of other races will be put by the wayside. As many people have already mentioned what tools you can use to help you with training (which has made it wayyyyy easier, none of that existed before), you can comfortable train a giant 1-prac if you put in some legwork. My last mortal that I played, a warrior, essentially had everything mastered from 1-prac save about 4-5 skills.
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Ergorion



Joined: 16 Mar 2007
Posts: 2156

PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2019 6:57 pm    Post subject:

1-prac'cing a giant sounds so terrible to me. How many hours did it take to get up to a remotely moderate level of training? Or did you just train up the most use skills and have a bunch just sitting in the 30% range or whatever.
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tayyah



Joined: 20 May 2011
Posts: 597

PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2019 5:17 am    Post subject:

80 hours for most weapons and skills from 1 practice. by 120 pretty much all 100. Giants usable at 30 hours of training. very vulnerable until defences and a good start on weapons. I've done many storm warriors and fire warriors. but I've never tried a giant cleric. I'd imagine it's rough
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ottif



Joined: 08 Jan 2015
Posts: 310

PostPosted: Fri Mar 29, 2019 11:46 pm    Post subject:

I had a 1 train giant cleric and about 200 hours did the trick. was badass tho
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