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Should the implementors be allowed to have cabal chars?
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Should imps be allowed cabal characters?
Yes
90%
 90%  [ 20 ]
No
9%
 9%  [ 2 ]
Total Votes : 22

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Ergorion



Joined: 16 Mar 2007
Posts: 2156

PostPosted: Sun Mar 08, 2015 6:20 pm    Post subject: Should the implementors be allowed to have cabal chars?

Obviously, they should be able to play their own game. But there is definitely a conflict of interest when it comes to imps and their characters.
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Xenyar
Emissary


Joined: 26 May 2010
Posts: 596

PostPosted: Sun Mar 08, 2015 6:45 pm    Post subject:

Yes, they should. They shouldn't be penalized because they are an imm...and banning them from having a cabal char would be doing that. There is a certain trust factor that goes into it...e.g. Making sure you don't abuse your power to benefit your mortal. That goes for all their chars whether cabaled or not. And I'm sure Dav trusts his imm staff... If he couldn't trust them, then they wouldn't be a Immortal in the first place.
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Ergorion



Joined: 16 Mar 2007
Posts: 2156

PostPosted: Sun Mar 08, 2015 7:24 pm    Post subject:

I also didn't say imm. I said imp.
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Esivole
Immortal


Joined: 21 May 2004
Posts: 958
Location: Somewhere beyond the present.

PostPosted: Sun Mar 08, 2015 7:42 pm    Post subject:

I absolutely think they should be allowed, if they want to. This goes into the trust of imps to do the right thing, which if you think they aren't, then you should bring up the concern (which you have done so here, and is fine.) I can only assume the imps like playing too, so restricting that idea based on imps status partially ruins it and in a way sort of has a way of outing who is playing that character.

"Hey bob, you wants be forsaken, you are pwning all nubs and deserves it?"

"No bill, I can't because.... well I don't have a good reason, but I just can't."

As another note, if imms/imps play AR in all of its aspects, the more things they might see that need fixing or tweaking, this isn't based on "man my character can pwn more" but more based on "this is completely broken and needs toned down" or "what the hell is the point of this skill/power?! we should make it do something useful."
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beia



Joined: 18 Mar 2006
Posts: 920
Location: Texas

PostPosted: Sun Mar 08, 2015 8:19 pm    Post subject:

This is one of a few muds that I have played that allow IMMS/IMPS to play mortals. I agree it is a conflict of interest and no matter what way you look at it, IMMS/IMPS know who plays who. They know who they can kill who they can not. Simply knowing that is enough to sway any decision they make ICLY on there morts. I trust all our IMMS but come on, if we looked at the last few years how many IMMS/IMPS have been on the top of the killing charts. Over half I am sure.

I see both aspects of this and I voted no. I know that this will never be changed but that is my opinion.
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Faelon
Emissary


Joined: 23 Feb 2006
Posts: 938
Location: Your moms house.

PostPosted: Sun Mar 08, 2015 8:48 pm    Post subject:

I feel like the question, in and of itself, has a back story to it. To be honest, beyond one or two characters I cannot think of an IMP who has come out after deletion/condeath as the owner of a super power house character. Sure, maybe a few in the top five and obviously some more in the top ten, but to be honest, I get in the top five pretty frequently and I blow at this game half the time.
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Davairus
Implementor


Joined: 16 Jan 2004
Posts: 10344
Location: 0x0000

PostPosted: Sun Mar 08, 2015 9:10 pm    Post subject:

I am the only imp here, and I don't have any cabal characters.. right now. My last was Lonova, which was about 8 years ago now, I think? If we can get up to a 27-30 max online, I'll probably join in again.

I had a lot of Justices but never got the high inquisitor spot I coveted. It is not like, as you say, anyone just handed leader to me. The cabal traditionally has had some jackass incumbent who wants to hang onto it forever, who is typically the alt of an Imm or a friend of an Imm. that is the typical mode of operation of the Justice cabal. It appeals to people who are straight edged Immortals. Without knowing "who plays who", I'd be very very careful how I behave around Justice mortals, just incase they are an immortal. This is true in any cabals, but probably most likely to be true in Justice. We have a RULE that if you are observed breaking the REAL rules by an immortals mortal, that absolutely counts as an admissible evidence of rule breaking, whether they are level 1 or level 50.

In Knights, they were practically begging every Knight to take the spot, and it had 3 leaders. I haven't led any other cabals, at any point, in my entire history of playing the game. I wouldn't have wanted to lead the cabal, but they basically begged me to take it, over and over, until I finally said I would. I had been asked to join it in the exact same way, also. It was the only time I led cabal. I'm not sure if I did it well but I don't feel sure it was net good for the game, so I wouldnt do it again. My character was called Runath if anybody remembers. We had burzuk around back then, only reason I ever agreed to it. I have to admit that the Knight cabal has made me feel more welcome and wanted than any other cabal ever did.


The only conflict of interest I experience as an IMPLEMENTOR is putting things into the game that may or may not nerf what I am playing at the moment or plan to play in the future. I have personally played pretty much everything but I don't trust our lower ranked and less experienced Immortals to not unwittingly fall into that favorite class-biased trap. Which is why every change goes through me. Which is what makes me the one and only implementor here. Its a burden on me that is large enough that I don't really have time to "play" at all anymore now.
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Faelon
Emissary


Joined: 23 Feb 2006
Posts: 938
Location: Your moms house.

PostPosted: Sun Mar 08, 2015 10:07 pm    Post subject:

The fact that you upkeep this place and don't have time to play is proof positive of your dedication to this game.
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Davairus
Implementor


Joined: 16 Jan 2004
Posts: 10344
Location: 0x0000

PostPosted: Sun Mar 08, 2015 10:37 pm    Post subject:

Yes, well I'm glad the thread came up, because it actually gives me a chance to point out that one of the reasons I stopped playing competitive characters is because I was actually sick and tired of being accused of what the original post was about. With all decisions ultimately flowing through me, it is unfair to accuse any Immortal of changing the game to benefit themselves. There is a formal process for changes, and everything is reviewed by me to maintain our high quality. You may say the lower immortals "bark" is worse than their "bite" so to speak.

The way I'd look at it is like this - the Immortals are not players. They are glorified NPC's. They look like player characters but they're not. As a player, you can "godzilla" the game and abuse bugs all day if you find them, and I'd say the original poster has more than done his fair share. I've seen him exploiting a bug in encumberances just this morning which, no surprise, somebody else has already reported as a whopping game-ruiner of a bug. As an Immortal, you can't feel right doing that. AS AN IMMORTAL, you are morally obligated to fix not exploit.

Be careful your posts do not drive away staff. It is actually a very heart-breaking accusation. If you suspect imm cheating, you can write a note to ME in the game, privately. Or you can email me. My email address is on the wizlist. If you suspect ME of cheating, well then continuing to play the game or even get my attention immediately makes you an insane person.
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Ergorion



Joined: 16 Mar 2007
Posts: 2156

PostPosted: Sun Mar 08, 2015 11:24 pm    Post subject:

There are approximately 157 communists in the House of Representatives as we speak.

Edit: also, what bug is that? I thought monks could use medium weighted armor in some styles and not others. That seems intentional.

Edit edit: Also, when changes start buffing a certain cabal to the extent that they attain invincible status, my eyebrows start going up.
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Nycticora



Joined: 09 Feb 2013
Posts: 2277

PostPosted: Sun Mar 08, 2015 11:33 pm    Post subject:

I haven't had a single caballed character since getting immed, personally. That's more because I don't want to make you guys quit in frustration than anything else though.

If you have something to say just come right out and say it, stop beating around the bush
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beia



Joined: 18 Mar 2006
Posts: 920
Location: Texas

PostPosted: Sun Mar 08, 2015 11:36 pm    Post subject:

Yes the Justice Cabal needs a Nerf...
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Ergorion



Joined: 16 Mar 2007
Posts: 2156

PostPosted: Sun Mar 08, 2015 11:41 pm    Post subject:

I think it's clear a good amount of people know where I'm aiming, but since it still is an active character that I'm referencing, I haven't said anything specific. I'll do it in the suggestion forum or something.
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Dogran
Immortal


Joined: 13 Jun 2009
Posts: 1794

PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2015 12:01 am    Post subject:

Frankly, I think I know who you are talking about. I can say that not only have I seen the character in question beat, but I have beaten that character in the past myself. I think this post is messed up. I personally WANT our I'm ms to play Caballero chars and whatnot. some of themy really provide a challenge, and all of them are loads of fun to rp with. If you are finding fault because you can't beat someone look at yourself and what you are doing wrong or what race-class you are playing.
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Ceridwel
Immortal


Joined: 01 Feb 2008
Posts: 3385
Location: Seattle

PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2015 12:31 am    Post subject:

My 2-23 record has cast a chill of fear in Ergorion's heart, obviously.
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Xenyar
Emissary


Joined: 26 May 2010
Posts: 596

PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2015 1:13 am    Post subject:

Invincible status? I don't think there are any cabaled chars at that status right now.
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beia



Joined: 18 Mar 2006
Posts: 920
Location: Texas

PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2015 2:23 am    Post subject:

For the record. I voted no, not because I do not like or trust any immortal. I voted no because I guess I am so use to IMMS/IMPS not playing Morts. If we had a pbase of like 30-40 a day the IMMS/IMPS would have so much to keep track of and work I doubt they would be able to play morts.. Not saying they should not be aloud to.. Idk my logic often fails..
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Ozaru



Joined: 01 Jun 2010
Posts: 1073

PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2015 5:05 am    Post subject:

id rather have any immortal in any cabal even if they know who i am playing over a shit vahn char any day of the week. how is this guy reputable is beyond me. The immortals here take this game more seriously than most players that play. they actually respect the game they don't cheat they don't ooc the only real advantage they have and i would guess this is a select few is they know the areas and rooms inside and out. What makes a great pker is the simple fact that they know where you are going before you do. they don't spam directions and slow themselves down. Dav nyc or any other imm good a pk dont have an easy button they just make less mistakes than the rest.
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Ozaru



Joined: 01 Jun 2010
Posts: 1073

PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2015 5:10 am    Post subject:

!votekick beia
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beia



Joined: 18 Mar 2006
Posts: 920
Location: Texas

PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2015 5:10 am    Post subject:

Lmao Ozaru ... are you are still mad that I pked your trashy ranger? QQ moar... I love how you make everything about you.
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