Forum Links 

Click to return to main page
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile  Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages    Log inLog in 
 Current Top Rated Killers 
 Next Event   Voting Links 


The event "The Assault on Taekir" is beginning in 1 day, 9 hours.

Should Justices be able to be invis/hidden while in cities?
Goto page 1, 2  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Abandoned Realms Forum Index -> Polls
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Rothak



Joined: 03 Oct 2011
Posts: 256
Location: Japan

PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2015 4:17 pm    Post subject: Should Justices be able to be invis/hidden while in cities?

Ok, so I've had some lots and forth going back with a particular Justice (Not naming names) who happens to be invis nearly every second he's in Seringale. Now, when I played as Rheloth, which was a Justice, we were not allowed to remain hidden from normal eyes due to the fact that it invites 'chaos' into the cities. If a char does not know a Justice is there, he's going to do something illegal, if a char does not know a Justice is there, he's going to not do something illegal (most likely). Thoughts?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address
 
0 1
boo,
0
Olyn
Immortal


Joined: 23 Jul 2008
Posts: 3244
Location: Pennsylvania

PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2015 4:52 pm    Post subject:

The clear potion is what, 20 rooms from Seringale? AFAIK, justices can't flag for crimes committed while they are hidden/camo/shadow.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
 
0 0 0
Rothak



Joined: 03 Oct 2011
Posts: 256
Location: Japan

PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2015 5:01 pm    Post subject:

So what makes invisible so different? Yeah the clear potion is there, and there are quite a number of other means to see invisible... unless you're a Warlord app.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address
 
0 0 0
Olyn
Immortal


Joined: 23 Jul 2008
Posts: 3244
Location: Pennsylvania

PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2015 5:03 pm    Post subject:

Availability of detection is what's different.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
 
0 0 0
Ceridwel
Immortal


Joined: 01 Feb 2008
Posts: 3385
Location: Seattle

PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2015 6:53 pm    Post subject:

This is a common misconception about Justices. The Justice rules state you must be visible when fining/flagging. There is no Justice cabal rule stating you cannot be invisible the rest of the time.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
 
0 0 0
Rothak



Joined: 03 Oct 2011
Posts: 256
Location: Japan

PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2015 9:32 pm    Post subject:

So then, if he looks at me wielding a wild weapon while invis, goes invis and fines me, that's fine? Or does he have to look at me while visible?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address
 
0 0 0
Olyn
Immortal


Joined: 23 Jul 2008
Posts: 3244
Location: Pennsylvania

PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2015 9:41 pm    Post subject:

To be honest, it's irrelevant. The Justice guidelines are not available to anyone outside of the cabal. If you break the law, expect there to be consequences if a Justice is around.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
 
0 0 0
Davairus
Implementor


Joined: 16 Jan 2004
Posts: 10344
Location: 0x0000

PostPosted: Thu Mar 12, 2015 1:43 am    Post subject:

so where's the poll? You fucked it up Rothak.

Fucked it up for everybody.


Damn it.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
 
6 1
boo,
0
Rothak



Joined: 03 Oct 2011
Posts: 256
Location: Japan

PostPosted: Thu Mar 12, 2015 9:49 am    Post subject:

My B, D. I've never done one before. Not like it matters though from what I can tell.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address
 
1 0 0
curisq



Joined: 07 Sep 2008
Posts: 75

PostPosted: Thu Mar 12, 2015 10:07 pm    Post subject:

If it is not a rule it used to be. I remember seeing the note about not being invis in town, because Justices are not here to "encourage" law breaking.

some times i try to click cheers to see who is cheering for a post, and end up cheering for it myself. Sad
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
 
1 0 0
Clifton



Joined: 16 Jan 2004
Posts: 530

PostPosted: Fri Mar 13, 2015 12:07 am    Post subject:

my favorite thing to do is message people in cabals as an uncaballed lowbie and tell them what their cabal duties are, because.. ya know, I obviously know better from my experiences 10 years ago. /s
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
 
0 0 0
Nycticora



Joined: 09 Feb 2013
Posts: 2277

PostPosted: Fri Mar 13, 2015 1:37 am    Post subject:

Threads like this make me legitimately sad. I'd like to see this problem resolved permanently. I've talked about this briefly before but I haven't ever made a thread.

Cabal rules like this which don't appear in any helpfiles (or only in cabal helpfiles) aren't part of the game rules. There's a divide between things the imp & staff decide and the things the cabal imm & cabal leader decide. Or at least there should be. I think this is the way the system is intended to behave, but currently the system does NOT behave this way.

When you break the game rules you (the player) should be punished by the staff (the players of the immortals). When you break cabal rules, you (the character) should be punished by a cabal leader or immortal (the character). If you piss off a powerful immortal in-character, the immortal might murder you like Zeus might smite a Greek, or Thor might smite a viking. They might outcast your character or punish them in other ways, but these things should really all be taken care of in-character.

For example, Fynth is lawful evil. He's not a benevolent ruler, he's a tyrant. It's entirely plausible that Fynth might wish to enact an oppressive law that hurts the population, and it would be entirely in-character to do so. The immortal leader of Justice might have a problem with this, but ideally I'd like to see this conflict resolved in-game and in-character, even if a "punishment" is eventually meted out by an immortal. If it continues to be treated as a game rule violation and resolved out-of-character, you will never see this kind of roleplay actually happen.

The staff does rarely stay in-character for these exchanges, and I have seen cabal rules enforced several times by the immortal the player and not the immortal the character. This is probably the reason our players treat all cabal rules as game rules and is the root cause of this thread being posted. It's my opinion that the players are correct to treat these cabal traditions as game rules because enforcement has been arbitrary.

This process needs to be fixed or players will not be able to react to changing cabal policies and will continue to treat cabal traditions as game rules. From the point of view of Rothak, with the information Rothak has available to him he has no way to predict how an immortal would react to this situation and is unable to roleplay a response.

Priority on it is really low though, it's never been the issue of the hour.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
 
1 1
boo,
0
Nycticora



Joined: 09 Feb 2013
Posts: 2277

PostPosted: Fri Mar 13, 2015 1:46 am    Post subject:

FYI I'm aware that Justice is particularly problematic because newbies tend to think the justices are imms and flip their shit if they're treated unfairly, so Justice specifically has a really nasty extra layer of problems attached to it on this issue that other cabals do not.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
 
0 0 0
Ergorion



Joined: 16 Mar 2007
Posts: 2156

PostPosted: Fri Mar 13, 2015 2:19 am    Post subject:

As the resident creator of plan 9 from outer space. Aka section 9 which I think still exists. I agree with ranix.

Also,,,,,,,,
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
 
0 0 0
Mikoos



Joined: 03 Nov 2012
Posts: 474

PostPosted: Fri Mar 13, 2015 2:40 am    Post subject:

I think they should be able to be invis/hidden/shadowformed. Paranoia is a good thing.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
 
0 0 0
Ergorion



Joined: 16 Mar 2007
Posts: 2156

PostPosted: Fri Mar 13, 2015 3:22 am    Post subject:

It's like in Kafka where the prison guard is in the center of the prison with the ability to see any prisoner at a time, but not all prisoners at the same time. So one of the inmates could have a window to escape, but has no idea when that window is, thus the safest option is just not to try to escape.

Or just take a fucking flag and stop being pussiessss.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
 
0 0 0
Mummy



Joined: 11 Sep 2006
Posts: 698
Location: Under Resatimm's Ass

PostPosted: Sat Mar 14, 2015 3:09 am    Post subject:

thread tl;dr

This has been brought up and shut down before. Invisible Justice is okay.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
 
0 0 0
Clifton



Joined: 16 Jan 2004
Posts: 530

PostPosted: Sat Mar 14, 2015 6:46 am    Post subject:

Just because something was done in the past doesn't mean it's right in the present. Appealing to the past is a shitty way to shut down discussion. I think Nyctoria's points on gameplay rules vs. cabal guidelines (mortal-mortal interaction) are interesting and would love to see it flushed out.


That said, lets bring back some lowbie ganks and full loots! That's how it was done in the past!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
 
0 0 0
Mummy



Joined: 11 Sep 2006
Posts: 698
Location: Under Resatimm's Ass

PostPosted: Sat Mar 14, 2015 2:13 pm    Post subject:

Groq: "To be honest, it's irrelevant. The Justice guidelines are not available to anyone outside of the cabal. If you break the law, expect there to be consequences if a Justice is around."

Seems like it does apply to the present.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
 
0 0 0
Faelon
Emissary


Joined: 23 Feb 2006
Posts: 938
Location: Your moms house.

PostPosted: Sat Mar 14, 2015 3:13 pm    Post subject:

The reason this is able to be discussed by people outside of this cabal, is because they have the potential to be the most powerful cabal out of any of the current cabals. With a level 50 mob as backup, three protected areas to lay low in, guards in every city that will attack someone who may be chasing you around and a level 53ish mob (dagnir) who you can squat behind if shit gets nasty. There are other skills, but I'll leave them be because they are cabal skills.

To Nyct's point - I agree, it would be fun to do that, but again the problem stems to the straight power of Justices. Now, if Legion, Keeper and Knight had these abilities to put up laws in their own towns and enforce them in some way shape or form, with auto attacking mobs and a flag (with a special guard who only attacks that person with those abilities), then sure, lets do this. Because then an alliance with another cabal means something, "Oh, a fugitive from Darkhaven is here? Well, tell their guard tough shit, if they attack in our town, they'll be wanted."
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
 
0 0 0
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Abandoned Realms Forum Index -> Polls All times are GMT
Goto page 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © phpBB Group