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The event "The Assault on Taekir" is beginning in 1 day, 5 hours.

Regarding INTRUDER flags

 
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Should changes be made to how Intruder works?
No, leave them alone, they are fine as is.
50%
 50%  [ 6 ]
Yes, its dumb. Remove it altogether.
41%
 41%  [ 5 ]
Yes, make it so you're flagged Intruder only if you invade and there are no Justices logged in at the time.
8%
 8%  [ 1 ]
Yes, make it so you're flagged Intruder only if you invade and there is at least one Justice logged in at the time.
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
Total Votes : 12

Author Message
Oxyl



Joined: 17 Oct 2012
Posts: 127

PostPosted: Sat Mar 21, 2015 11:48 pm    Post subject: Regarding INTRUDER flags

All this talk of Justices got me thinking about this.
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Kedaleam
Immortal


Joined: 25 Mar 2006
Posts: 989
Location: Michigan

PostPosted: Sun Mar 22, 2015 1:21 am    Post subject:

It's fine. If you invade, you should lose protection in the city. Unless it's changed the last few years. But with that said, it's 100% necessary for a justice to go after an intruder. The only real problem I have with it all is a justice can go back to town and rest up full and have no problems really, since if someone were to follow and attck they become wanted and that's when the crying really begins. Maybe a justice should lose protection if an intruder is still alive in the realms?
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Kato



Joined: 03 Nov 2013
Posts: 219

PostPosted: Sun Mar 22, 2015 2:57 am    Post subject:

Thank you for posting thus poll, the people spoke and they wantedp another
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Davairus
Implementor


Joined: 16 Jan 2004
Posts: 10344
Location: 0x0000

PostPosted: Sun Mar 22, 2015 6:34 am    Post subject:

You're a mouth breathing, wall headbutting, shoulder biting, crayon chewing, son of abitch
WOOOOOOOOOO
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1
woo,
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Faelon
Emissary


Joined: 23 Feb 2006
Posts: 938
Location: Your moms house.

PostPosted: Sun Mar 22, 2015 6:44 am    Post subject:

I voted for a removal of the current system. I did this because the current system means invading Justice is generally a suicide mission, if there is a justice around. While it is 'possible' hgod them, it is also possible to hgod anyone else. So that isn't really sound.

Generally, in cabal warfare, invading someone should be a way to force a fight. With Justices, this should be double for them, as they are sitting in protected areas the majority of the time. Of course, getting wanted is a nerf and a half, even if you are a fairly good pker. Getting into Justices shouldn't mean 'I can sit in town, hoard my equipment and only come out whenever I feel like it.' Like any other cabal, it should come with a sense of imminent danger. What the fuck is the point otherwise?
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Davairus
Implementor


Joined: 16 Jan 2004
Posts: 10344
Location: 0x0000

PostPosted: Sun Mar 22, 2015 7:08 am    Post subject:

These polls aren't valid admission for game balance. This kind of issue ultimately needs to be decided by rational scientific judgement. Since the game is so complex, there is really no substitute for the hands of this experienced, qualified and capable-of-kicking-ass implementor, even if you do hold the opinion that it sucks. Or even if maybe you think I suck, its still better to have strong -and focused- vision than a hodge podge of opinions from all directions.

I definitely don't mind you voicing your opinions, not at all, I think its cool that people are voting and engaging, but just don't expect it to lead to any action or even direction. I have a lot of bigger fish to fry, and I can easily bog myself down with responding to everything here and end up not getting anything done.


The intruder flag is a balance factor against Justice not being able to invade cabals. The Justice cabal is otherwise abused with free raiding to take Justices out of town (where they are supposed to be). Still abuseable btw, just not "free". Sorry but I see no reason to spend any further time on it. We spent a couple months arguing five years ago and resolved it with that. I will check in the thread again later but this does look like a legitimate waste of precious time at this point. Remember I and other Immortals am a finite resource, if youre trying to prod me one direction then something else must do without. I see larger issues
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Groq
Immortal


Joined: 13 Jan 2006
Posts: 500
Location: Downstate NY

PostPosted: Sun Mar 22, 2015 7:12 am    Post subject:

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Mikoos



Joined: 03 Nov 2012
Posts: 474

PostPosted: Sun Mar 22, 2015 1:38 pm    Post subject:

I see Justices not being allowed to invade as a bonus to them, not a penalty. They don't to deal with dispel/curse, etc. Invading a cabal has never been a way to force people to fight because the defenders can just show up, murder and run away.

What I don't like about justice is, they're part of a system that 'controls' areas. Yes Knights have their one power, Abduct has never been good since the nerf. We might as well have a system to change control of areas if we want to balance Justice out. Actually hold territories.
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Ergorion



Joined: 16 Mar 2007
Posts: 2156

PostPosted: Sun Mar 22, 2015 5:52 pm    Post subject:

Abduct is good.
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Nycticora



Joined: 09 Feb 2013
Posts: 2277

PostPosted: Sun Mar 22, 2015 7:22 pm    Post subject:

Abduct needs work and Legion has been due some new powers for a long time. My fault they haven't gotten them yet.
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Faelon
Emissary


Joined: 23 Feb 2006
Posts: 938
Location: Your moms house.

PostPosted: Mon Mar 23, 2015 12:01 am    Post subject:

[quote]The intruder flag is a balance factor against Justice not being able to invade cabals.[/quote]

It's more complicated then that. Justices can and will sit in town, even if they've provoked someone in the past, they can simply squat and try to wait you out for the wanted flag if you decide to push the issue.

Other cabals do not have a place, unless a Justice is around, to simply squat and know that if you attack them, their range of cabal powers just went from pretty good to fucking amazing.

Their inability to invade cabals, stems from their abilities as a cabal, in my opinion. It also has led to other things as well, but for some reason we forget that they above all have absolutely the best protection of any cabal.


[quote]The Justice cabal is otherwise abused with free raiding to take Justices out of town (where they are supposed to be).[/quote]

If they are 'supposed to be in town' then why are we allowing any aggressive actions out of Justices? That comment doesn't really mesh with the reality. And I wouldn't want them to be unaggressive and sit in town all day characters anyway, I would prefer they can act as a normal character with their own reasons for doing what they do.

As far as 'free' raiding is concerned, is their a cabal currently outside of Justices where raiding isn't free? Knights, Keepers, Legion and Warlords you can invade to draw anyone from anywhere to come and get you. So tracking becomes unnecessary. Why do we care that we are drawing Justices out of Seringale/Timaran? Is it that big of a deal that people want to fight decked the fuck out Justices? Or aggressive Justices? Or just be chaotic?

Edit -

Just to be clear. I don't mind disagreeing with you and I don't care if it doesn't change, or it does change. I can and will voice my opinion about the cabals and go from there. I'd hope you want it and it seems you do. When I am talking about this stuff, it's never personal.
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Kato



Joined: 03 Nov 2013
Posts: 219

PostPosted: Mon Mar 23, 2015 1:03 am    Post subject:

Justices are definitely super strong (and i like the dagnir change, that really rustled my jimmies), but there is some give and take. As a shaman vs a Knight paladin/warrior/berserker (except rondak, bless his heart), the knight could just sit in Valour and know that if I came in, he could imprison and murder me in close quarters. Abduct isn't nearly as long as imprison so Legions don't have the same advantage, but legions are kinda gangbangy and rapey anyway so it evens out.
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