Raged Zerkers can't be lagged?

[m1coftw]

jeeeei, success. Enough whine always works Welcome back Warriors!

[Ergorion]

Buffing warriors doesn't change my point about berserkers.

[m1coftw]

Im just hoping that eventually all classes will have their cheese again just like in the old days with cleave and shit. I remember it all started when too many classes had cheese skills, so they kept removing and nerfing them. Now its time to go back to the future!

[Davairus]

I think we are on different pages. I don't view a berserker as a raging dumb fuck. I see it as superior fighting style. He's not actually out of control while raged, he's fighting completely instinctively and that means you are not going to have a reactive edge on him. So with the way I'm looking at it, there is no place in the game for something easy like overhead crush to double disarm/lag this guy. The penalty for rage is that he cannot flee. The penalty is not that he cannot do anything while he watches you wind up an overhead crush to double disarm and lag him for 3 rounds with it, while he fights completely defenseless and weaponless. That looked ridiculous from where I was sitting. You can bitch about that all day if you like, but you definitely won't move my opinion. This change is also already over 8 months ago

Don't forget you can just flee on a low hp raged berserker and let him incapacitate. The hp bonus of rage is literally meaningless, as its temporary. The same goes for the fire berserker legacy (not the icicles sizzling one)

[Nycticora]

I currently disagree with your point Ergorion but not strongly and I would like to argue about it with you in irc sometime you're free.

[Ergorion]

Hp bonus is not meaningless because berserkers can body slam the shit out of you.

Overhead crush rakes those weapons. Disarms are prevented by defiance. And those rakes are there to mitigate the rolf-stomp damage berserkers can deal out.

Berserkers already have skills to do in combat so that they're not their eating your overheads. They have roar, less strength and hysteria means (a) that potentially heavy two-hander might be too heavy for you to wield (b) you have a lower chance of landing that overhead. Headbutt causing delirium. After they overhead you, you body slam the shit out of them lagging THEM for two rounds. Meaning you eat one overhead every five rounds.

[Faelon]

A few points - I used rage on Voglin more sparingly then people realize. It was tactical decision, because rage can get you killed. Easily.

Second - In a fight with a zerker that I had a while ago, I fought Balan at level 40. I was decked out, he wasn't. I raged and he over headed me to death.

Third - Fynth died because of abduct. I am under no illusions as to whether I could have capped him in an open space, unless I got really
lucky.

Fourth - So, you see this brute, screaming, tearing their hair out and you go "Hey! I think I'll get close for a trip!" Ohhhkay. As he lops your fucking leg off with one of those random swings of his axe.

Lastly - The damage output everyone is referring to on here is ONLY mania + rage. Rage itself, while it does give a nice boost, is not the end game. If a berserker rages at you, assume that berserker is using mania and you have a few options;

A) If you can summon, pre-summon a bunch of level 45-50 mobs all over east roads and lead them there. They'll likely get arrogant and rage/mania for what they think is an 'easy' kill. Walk past them a few times when you flee, as they chase for the bodyslam and laugh when they attack a triton. If they relax, relax has a larger lag then you realize. Walk back in and give them a few rounds of initiated combat with the triton tanking for you. Also, consider lagging at that point.

B) Can't summon? Use shopkeepers. Area's with high level mobs. They can relax, you say? And? That's now one agro mob. They don't follow you? Well, they also can't sleep until rage wears off or they relax. So take a nap and heal up, and wait for them to come for you. When they do, they aren't in rage anymore and you are free to commence combat.

C) Illusionists and necros shouldn't ever have to deal with rage, unless either they or the zerker are half tarded. Mania flee/murders are the only way to deal with them.

D) Thieves? Aren't built for toe to toe combat. Steal shit. It's what you do.

E) Monks? Healing and combat style advantage. LEOPARD. OMFG LEOPARD STYLE. Against a rage/mania zerker, trust me, I hated that god damn style. I watched rounds go by with literally zero damage by me because of that god damn style.

[Ergorion]

"Also, consider lagging at that point." - Faelon

This entire thread is about how it is now impossible to lag a raged berserker.

[Faelon]

What are you a fox news affiliate?

[quote] If they relax, relax has a larger lag then you realize. Walk back in and give them a few rounds of initiated combat with the triton tanking for you. Also, consider lagging at that point. [/quote]

Try quoting the whole thing.

[Davairus]

Well Faelon just pointed out, he was still overheaded to death while decked by a non-decked warrior. I've mainly taken away the lag so the berserkers would have a better chance vs that. I did not realise overhead had been changed to rake instead of complete double disarm, and since that's obviously even worse, it tells me I didn't do enough to fix this problem. Which makes all this complaining, as you say it, "retarded".

[Ergorion]

Faelon, I did just skim that bullet point.

And Dav you always lambast people for using one example to make a point so I'm just gonna go ahead and say using one anecdote of overhead winning the day isn't solid. I definitely remember my gnome warrior being two-handed and overheading berserkers and still getting owned back in the day.

And seriously, as a zerker you should get over headed once every five rounds. That's a very long gap.

[ottif]

How is rake which gives you obliterate through aura better than removing weapons and significantly reducing damage and not pumping up fury?

[Davairus]

Because you can keep your combat style advantage, which since you can actually overhead tells me that you already have a whackin great passive parry bonus vs dual wield that is going to make the berserker do jack for damage because he always misses, and at the same time you have a concentrate bonus buffing your own damage (which I expect is further amped by just hobbling). On top of that, your raking is preventing him from doing ANY damage. I would rather be able to hand to hand damage than nothing, and wear my other weapons after you kindly disarm me. In fact, I would not even dual wield raged vs a warrior. Its horrible. I would rather take sideswipes. I would rather be able to EAT my weapon ont he spot. Just eat it
It chaps my ass a bit that you guys get so worked up because you saw an oblit. Woo! Big deal. Think about the secondary affects

[Dogran]

hahah +1 dav

[Ergorion]

Eat sideswipes? Are you for real? Does sideswipe no longer rake? Cause it used to. You can also sideswipe twice as much as you can overhead due to respective lags.

And winding kick used to reduce strength (negligible because of rage) and more importantly, dex (I think). Unless you removed winding kick from sideswipe as well.

Edit: a disarmed berserker has zero defenses. Granted their parry is probably pretty weak, but while their weapons are raked, they can still defend themselves. Disarmed, they eat it all.

[Faelon]

Rage. Overhead for the disarm. Wield two handed weapon. Bodyslam you to death. Repeat conversation about op zerkers.

[Davairus]

You would flip the tables with the two handed rage rakes and the forum would look like homer simpson was left in charge

[ottif]

Huh? Seen one oblit? I've been obliterated through sanc in nearly every single fight I've had against a zerker since I started playing again and I can show you the logs to prove it if you need say the word I'll post it wherever you like

Correct me here but Doesn't missing help fury -> oblit??????? So wouldn't you want to get raked and get a free oblit? I'd rather that and have defenses while lagged by me body slamming spam than no defenses no dmg. And is Nadein still up Davs butt it's not going to happen dude if you haven't been immed yet just give up.

Anyway you make points dav but none that explain an oblit on a class that already does crazy dmg can inflict crazy lag and can rage for crazy dmg mitigation.

[Ceridwel]

Fitto your trolling is against forum rules, please consider this a warning.

[Ergorion]

Ottif, if you sum all the damage other classes are able to dish out and compress them into a single line of damage, I'm sure most of them would do oblits. If any new voices have anything to add, I'd appreciate other perspectives as well.

Edit: boo censorship.