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The event "The Assault on Taekir" is beginning in 1 day, 13 hours.

Discussion for looting
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Davairus
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Joined: 16 Jan 2004
Posts: 10344
Location: 0x0000

PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2015 4:29 am    Post subject: Discussion for looting

First of all, looting is a very divisive topic - some people are very pro-full loot and others find it immensely frustrating, and this means that talking about it inevitably leads to disagreements. That's the nature of this beast. What I'm looking for is just a discussion of looting in our current environment. I am not promising to change the looting rules in any way, rather, I am wondering just how appropriate our system is for the day and age. Basically this is the age of the casuals and people can (and have) just go play MMOs instead of hardcore games.

Currently it is only possible to loot one item at a time below a certain rank. It is difficult to loot anti-align (possibly also common items) with "get all", indicative of direction towards softer looting rules. It is also possible to strip items from a player who is lying stunned, before he actually dies, which is a mechanism that allows for looting restricted to the pk range.
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Andrael



Joined: 15 Jan 2013
Posts: 779

PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2015 5:43 am    Post subject:

I think looting is alright. Sure its frustrating when you spend a lot of time to get decked out then in a bad fight you get swamped by others and lose all your hard work, and it has caused some people to outright delete, I being one of those who has done it. I never looted someone to the point of full on looting. I have removed some items while a Knight to prevent the 'evil' from being much of a threat shortly afterwards, but mostly left all their things. As an evil though, I'd say go for the full loot and wreck their face off. Neutrals are eh.
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Ergorion



Joined: 16 Mar 2007
Posts: 2156

PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2015 6:08 am    Post subject:

I think a more pressing concern is out of range looting. Because after you get vultured, you both just sit their with your thumbs up your bums.
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Andrael



Joined: 15 Jan 2013
Posts: 779

PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2015 6:17 am    Post subject:

I honestly think you should have to be in the person's pk range to loot. I thought it was like that once upon a time.
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Ergorion



Joined: 16 Mar 2007
Posts: 2156

PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2015 6:28 am    Post subject:

I think the current situation for in-range looting is acceptable. It's the lowbie vulturing that puts me off.

As a solution to that I think there should be something like: only the killer should be able to loot from the corpse for something like 2 ticks.

Or only people in that person's pk range can loot from the corpse for 5 ticks.

After that window, it would then open up to vultures. This way there could still be the potential for lowbies to get some gear. But more of the gear goes to the people who actually deserve it.
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m1coftw



Joined: 05 May 2015
Posts: 265

PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2015 7:00 am    Post subject:

But vulturing is my favorite pastime Sad

If I can keep up with the fight and react quicker to the fallen goods, I may as well be rewarded for it.

Too many restrictions are meh, just meh.

And looting is fine as it is imo.
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Davairus
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Joined: 16 Jan 2004
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PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2015 8:39 am    Post subject:

One of my first ever instances with really ugly OOC was when I had "vultured" a vorpal sword at level 1 which had been disarmed in a warlord duel. Pretty soon I had two players and an Imm accusing me of creating a vulture loot character, and a Justice was telling me in the game he was about to flag me for picking up a weapon I knew was not locatable on my person. It ended up that I sacced the item and told them to quit harassing me. I think that was why they made it impossible for lowbies to pick rares up. You definiitely get a negative experience out of "vulching" no matter what side of it you are on. But i think its stupid that low level characters can't pick rares up
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Nycticora



Joined: 09 Feb 2013
Posts: 2277

PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2015 8:58 am    Post subject:

I think the killer should get to full loot it every kill. If it was up to me there would be a command to sacrifice the corpse and everything in it with one command.

>torch corpse
You light the corpse of Magik^ on fire and all his belongings go up in flames.

hell I used to have f9 bound to remove all; drop all; get all corpse; #20 sac 1.;delete;delete
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Esivole
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Joined: 21 May 2004
Posts: 958
Location: Somewhere beyond the present.

PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2015 12:31 pm    Post subject:

If it were to change, it would have to be anyone under 25 can't loot a kill that is not theirs. This is because cabals need to have access to having their noob inducties loot shit for them. you say "noobasaur, I died, grab some of my leet eq." You can't take that kind of interaction away. Personally, though I hate vultures when all of my corpses get vulched, I fee it is fine the way it is.
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Kato



Joined: 03 Nov 2013
Posts: 219

PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2015 12:37 pm    Post subject:

My suggestion:

Prevent out of range corpse looting. Add a command that temporarily forgoes PK range protection to allow out of range looting for a certain duration of time, adding a yellow flag (though not the unable-to-fight-back stuff with the cabal items). Should last 5 ticks or so. Faerie fire and curse could also be applied as well - it will still be very much possible to vulture under these circumstances, but would take a ballsy motherfucker to do it.
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tayyah



Joined: 20 May 2011
Posts: 597

PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2015 1:02 pm    Post subject:

Leave things the way they are. Losing your shit is a large part of the rush that you get from pk, dont be a nanny, this is a Hardcore game, dont change that.
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Kato



Joined: 03 Nov 2013
Posts: 219

PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2015 2:25 pm    Post subject:

I have never once seen good rp in a vulturing situation. It just isn't possible - as the vulture, there's no way to explain willingness to go fuck with someone who could one round you, and as the killer, it is entirely unfulfilling to just be able to say "well you just did something hugely aggressive and I have killed for way less, so you go ahead and watch your back in a month maybe."

My problem with vulturing isn't losing shit to a lowbie, it's not being able to do shit about that and shattering immersion.

Esivole, having low level cabal members loot for higher level ones also strikes me as an unhealthy interaction. You should either have full pk interaction or none - running up and being and to save gear for your buddy because lalala the gods protect me is ooc as hell
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Faelon
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Joined: 23 Feb 2006
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Location: Your moms house.

PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2015 2:54 pm    Post subject:

I suggested a while ago opening up the pk range if someone out of range loots. I agree with Kato, but not with the curse/faerie fire. If you are in range, you aren't going to get a faerie fire and thieves in your range would be able to continue hiding.

Would work like so -

50 op fire giant zerker dies to 50 op human necromancer/dark knight and necromknight dances on the corpse of said fire giant.

27 op invoker gets nifty things (he can't even fucking use) from op fire giant's corpse. Necromknight slaughters level 27 who is now in his range for 10 ticks.

5 ticks is too short, in my opinion and 15 or 20 would be too long. 10 is good and gives the chance from some run and fight. Maybe, because you looted, if you want to loot and quaff, you need to use a perfect potion, as your level just got temporarily opened up.

This would stop vulturing without repercussions. I don't have a problem with vulturing, I just think there should be some sort of possible retaliatory ability.
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Esivole
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Joined: 21 May 2004
Posts: 958
Location: Somewhere beyond the present.

PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2015 2:58 pm    Post subject:

The entire idea of not being in everyones pk range is ooc as hell. Game play takes precedence here, since we can't have a level 1 in a 50s range.

If you REALLY want to apply the temp pk ability, you can't do it with curse/faerie fire. That totally gimps already gimped classes, thieves are fucking thieves, after all.
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m1coftw



Joined: 05 May 2015
Posts: 265

PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2015 3:09 pm    Post subject:

Vulturing is cool because it makes nerds rage and ooc trashtalk to you. Really brings out the best of people.


And Nycticora, the torch command exists in mumemud that i used to play.

You just do "burn corpse" and after like 2 sec focus delay, you set the corpse on fire and everything gets burnt up, so the poor sod comes back to his burnt-up body and is not able to "get all corpse" anymore. Works great.

You can also hang, impale and scalp corpses, which is pretty much like stomp, but more badass.
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Kato



Joined: 03 Nov 2013
Posts: 219

PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2015 3:18 pm    Post subject:

The reason I suggested an additional penalty effect is that the open pk range is very temporary. Of any mechanic, recall has the single biggest stifling effect on pk deaths, and it would be super easy to chain <openpk, g all corpse, quaff recall>, run off somewhere for 5 minutes
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Kato



Joined: 03 Nov 2013
Posts: 219

PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2015 3:19 pm    Post subject:

On the vein of things that are silly, recall op
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Arunore



Joined: 05 Aug 2014
Posts: 200

PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2015 3:28 pm    Post subject:

I remember animating tbat stone keepers corpse to sac a metal chest that had 60ish of my souls inside. I was desperate cause i was watching them slowly disappear for a few weeks but could never get a fight with him, i just handed my sack to a zombie and hauled ass. Thodun that was his name i thinl, chest had like 200+ lbs
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m1coftw



Joined: 05 May 2015
Posts: 265

PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2015 3:38 pm    Post subject:

PK ranges suck anyway, above level 10 everyone should be in everyone's PK range, otherwise there's too much WoW effect aka talk shit and sit in safezone. Actions and interactions should have consequences and affects.
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Faelon
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Joined: 23 Feb 2006
Posts: 938
Location: Your moms house.

PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2015 4:36 pm    Post subject:

Back to reality for a second.


@Kato I understand that it is too easy to simply recall out of a fight, but a level 50 could do that and quit out. The whole idea is to make it so you can have SOME sort of retribution. If it were me, I'd be ready with a bash/bodyslam/blind/curse and so on.

This would also open up some interesting aspects like -Footman witnesses two legions gangbang a knight, knight manages to kill one legion, while the other survived. Footman gets item corpse and hellstreams the legionaires face.

(Edit) As a side note, I don't think this discussion should be about "How can we totally destroy vulturing and those who do it." It isn't breaking rules, but it does break immersion and there should be something that deters it, even if only by a slight margin.
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