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The event "The Assault on Taekir" is beginning in 1 day, 11 hours.

Parry for Monks
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Mr. Forgotten



Joined: 18 Aug 2005
Posts: 539

PostPosted: Sun Dec 27, 2015 12:54 pm    Post subject: Parry for Monks

Can someone explain the reasoning behind a Monk being unable to deflect attacks with a staff? Every class is supposed to be able to parry with the weapons they learn, so how come Monks can't?
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Mr. Forgotten



Joined: 18 Aug 2005
Posts: 539

PostPosted: Sun Dec 27, 2015 12:56 pm    Post subject:

I understand Monks are a special unarmed class, but you see them in all kinds of movies and shit AT LEAST being able to defend with a Staff. It's in their lore to be able to defend with that shit.
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tayyah



Joined: 20 May 2011
Posts: 597

PostPosted: Sun Dec 27, 2015 2:31 pm    Post subject:

I think this leans away from realism and rests in the wonderful world of game balance
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Mr. Forgotten



Joined: 18 Aug 2005
Posts: 539

PostPosted: Mon Dec 28, 2015 12:38 am    Post subject:

I just don't understand...Because Monks already cannot be in defensive combat style WHILE WIELDING WEAPONS since they cannot use shields or do not counterbalance, and they don't know how to dual wield. The only time they can be superior in combat style with a weapon is if they use one that is two-handed. In that case, it removes two of their three defenses and makes the use of any kind of weapon useless. Monks don't have second/third/fourth attack so they only get a max of two per round. I don't think it would be game-breaking to allow them to parry with weapons just like everyone else...That isn't where their damage is going to come from..

Last edited by Mr. Forgotten on Mon Dec 28, 2015 12:51 am; edited 1 time in total
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tayyah



Joined: 20 May 2011
Posts: 597

PostPosted: Mon Dec 28, 2015 12:40 am    Post subject:

umm, this really makes me think that you dont have a monk. each style represents a combat style, like tiger is dual wield, and leopard is defensive, and it puts you in that combat style when you enter the stance.
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tayyah



Joined: 20 May 2011
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 28, 2015 12:42 am    Post subject:

They arent supposed to use weapons, they have those weapons in their arsenal so that they can defend against them better, not to use them themselves
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Mr. Forgotten



Joined: 18 Aug 2005
Posts: 539

PostPosted: Mon Dec 28, 2015 12:42 am    Post subject:

You're free to think whatever you want.
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tayyah



Joined: 20 May 2011
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 28, 2015 12:46 am    Post subject:

they dont use weapons, thats not what a monk does

Last edited by tayyah on Mon Dec 28, 2015 12:47 am; edited 1 time in total
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Mr. Forgotten



Joined: 18 Aug 2005
Posts: 539

PostPosted: Mon Dec 28, 2015 12:46 am    Post subject:

Monks in every lore I've ever seen have ALWAYS been good at defending with a staff. They master defending with that weapon because of its natural defensive ability. The staff is supposed to represent a non-lethal weapon to defend with. Seeing as it's the best weapon in the game for parrying.
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tayyah



Joined: 20 May 2011
Posts: 597

PostPosted: Mon Dec 28, 2015 12:48 am    Post subject:

using a staff as a monk is just silly unless your using it to get to 100% and never use it again, end of story, if you want to play a warrior, than do so
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Mr. Forgotten



Joined: 18 Aug 2005
Posts: 539

PostPosted: Mon Dec 28, 2015 12:49 am    Post subject:

Lol, maybe you don't understand what I'm saying. Monks DO NOT have second/third/fourth attack because of their martial arts and kickboxing. They only get two attacks per round WITH WEAPONS because of that fact. They're not weapon specialists like warriors, so I understand why they can't attack more WITH WEAPONS. I'm just saying they should be able to AT LEAST defend with a STAFF. You know, the weapon that every lore in existence portrays a monk to be able to use.
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tayyah



Joined: 20 May 2011
Posts: 597

PostPosted: Mon Dec 28, 2015 12:52 am    Post subject:

Why? is the better question, why limit yourself to a one attack, not two, because you would require second attack to do 2 attacks if im not mistaken, for what, when you can just go MANTIS and your in two handed, and can do everything you could with the staff, except guess what, you have special abilities to go along with it, hmm, your right, we should give them parry, just so they can do a single attack with a staff, which is a physical weapon, and not magical, which I guess you could have argued to go against the barrior because right now that is an issue with monks, but it isnt, this is just silly thats all.
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Mr. Forgotten



Joined: 18 Aug 2005
Posts: 539

PostPosted: Mon Dec 28, 2015 12:59 am    Post subject:

For defense, as I've stated in EVERY reply except one...Mantis is not a defensive style, it is a YANG empowerment. Panda is sub-par for defensive two-handed combat style. I don't think you realize how weapons work with monks. The two-handed monk styles are shit. I've used them plenty of times and got fucking worked over. My AC is over 310 and anyone dual wielding still works me over, even if i'm in panda style, you know, the YIN two-handed style.
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tayyah



Joined: 20 May 2011
Posts: 597

PostPosted: Mon Dec 28, 2015 1:02 am    Post subject:

staff isnt defensive its two handed, I dont understand what you think that if your styles arent going to win a staff is going to save you?
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Mr. Forgotten



Joined: 18 Aug 2005
Posts: 539

PostPosted: Mon Dec 28, 2015 1:04 am    Post subject:

Monks get up to TWO attacks while they're wielding weapons, i know this from experience...EXTENSIVE experience. While there is no viable damaging use for a weapon in a monks hands, they should AT LEAST still be able to defend with the ONE weapon every lore in existence portrays them using to DEFEND themselves with. Christ, I feel like I'm repeating myself.
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Mr. Forgotten



Joined: 18 Aug 2005
Posts: 539

PostPosted: Mon Dec 28, 2015 1:07 am    Post subject:

A staff is the best weapon in the game for parrying...ANYONE dual wielding fucking rocks a monks world because they don't have adequate defense against two weapons, unarmed two-handed style or not. I know this because I have experience...I don't want to say much more than that because it would be outing my character...
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Mr. Forgotten



Joined: 18 Aug 2005
Posts: 539

PostPosted: Mon Dec 28, 2015 1:13 am    Post subject:

Panda style has great potential for damage output, but it's a DEFENSIVE(YIN) empowerment, which means it is supposed to be better for defending, but it's terrible at that. Mantis and Snake, the OTHER two-handed options for a monk are OFFENSIVE(YANG) empowerments, which means they're going to be shitty for defending with against a dual wielding maniac. On top of being shitty defensive styles, Mantis and Snake are terrible for doing damage. The only real use for those styles are the kicks. Panda style does more damage in combat than either of those two, so they're pretty much jokes. Overall, the YIN two-handed style is terrible at defending, but better than both of the YANG two-handed styles for damage, meanwhile, those YANG two-handed styles are sub-par when it comes to attacking and are NOT NOT NOT what you want to use to defend against someone dual-wielding.
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Mr. Forgotten



Joined: 18 Aug 2005
Posts: 539

PostPosted: Mon Dec 28, 2015 1:17 am    Post subject:

What I'm saying is that monks have SHITTY options for two-handed styles, whether they're YIN or YANG empowerments. They just don't do the things they're supposed to.
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tayyah



Joined: 20 May 2011
Posts: 597

PostPosted: Mon Dec 28, 2015 1:22 am    Post subject:

have you tried going neutral and trying to match the damage? going dual wield yourself. I just dont think that staff is the answer you are looking for. it doesnt make any sense to me. Although, even as a fire warrior against a dual wielding power house, switching to staff and going into defense never worked for me.
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Faelon
Emissary


Joined: 23 Feb 2006
Posts: 938
Location: Your moms house.

PostPosted: Mon Dec 28, 2015 1:23 am    Post subject:

Simply because you don't think it is a wise playing style, doesn't necessarily mean it is out of the realm of possibility for monks to be able to have a basic defense with the weapons they use.


There isn't a single class in the game which can use a weapon, yet also cannot defend with the weapon they can use, so it makes sense for them to have a basic defense.

Conversely, monks have the best defenses in the game while not using weapons AND have dodge, which still functions while the weapon is being used. The classes (mages/clerics) that have a weapon and only one/two defenses do not have said abilities, so my previous argument has a flaw in that sense.

Lastly, dual wielding doesn't eat up monks as badly as you'd think, though it can be a handicap. The primary way to beat an opponent who is dual wielding is A) Dirt B) Disarm C) Run and heal a lot. That's from experience.
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