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Level 25 PK range is garbage

 
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divsky
Emissary


Joined: 13 Mar 2004
Posts: 1054
Location: Iowa City, IA

PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2016 5:50 pm    Post subject: Level 25 PK range is garbage

Nothing but trash kills from niche PKers with end-game rares they bought off the auction hall. They know anyone who wants into a cabal is going to train at level 25 so they just hang out there and trash kill. There's no RP. No worthwhile character interactions. Just training and trash-killing.
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Ergorion



Joined: 16 Mar 2007
Posts: 2156

PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2016 6:40 pm    Post subject:

I agree. The training circle jerks at the dummy get stupid.

"Hey, train. "
"Sure. Why not you're an elf I'm a crow but whatevs "
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Olyn
Immortal


Joined: 23 Jul 2008
Posts: 3244
Location: Pennsylvania

PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2016 8:53 pm    Post subject:

What's the quote? "You must be the change you want to see in the world."

I get that some people silent trash, but others establish a foundation for solid RP in those ranks. If those of us that care make ourselves part of the latter group, it'll be fine. Besides, isn't it a great feeling when you own the trash and take their full suit?
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Ceridwel
Immortal


Joined: 01 Feb 2008
Posts: 3385
Location: Seattle

PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2016 8:57 pm    Post subject:

There are a few possible aspects of what you're complaining about so could you be more specific?

1) Trash/niche lowbie pk with no rp
2) Rank 25 guy in end-game rares
3) Alignment-restrictionless grouping at dummy

Try to separate the fact that you got pwned by that fire giant from your answer. And FWIW I think his gear his rediculous at that rank. I want level restricted gear reimplemented when I see that garbage.
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Ozaru



Joined: 01 Jun 2010
Posts: 1073

PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2016 10:44 pm    Post subject:

The only people getting trash pk at lvl 25 are monks, because aside from monks and berserkers every other class would only spend a limited time at the dummy at lvl 25 because of the skills they receive. You are complaining about the fact that you are tired of someone coming to kill your monk because you aren't paying attention. Short of a necro or maybe even a dkn at lvl 25 a monk should have no problem killing someone even without sanc as long as you are paying attention. Ive have done it numerous times.

The whole eq thing I am with you on that not for the fact that I don't think they should have it but it pisses me off when I am level 50 and I want a dagger of yog soth and some dumbshit berserker has it at lvl 25.

If you can't pay attention for two hours during a surge then thats a problem.if you afk and leave your char to die again thats your problem.Don't try to ruin the dummy for the rest of us cuz you are too lazy to watch your char
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ewils03



Joined: 05 Jan 2015
Posts: 153

PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2016 12:36 am    Post subject:

There absolutely should be level restrictions on equipment rather than lvl 20+ for any rare/unique. I'm not understanding why all armor can't be treated like gambled and bought armor is; you must be this level to wear this item. That is certainly something I would work on if I could.
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Nycticora



Joined: 09 Feb 2013
Posts: 2277

PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2016 4:09 am    Post subject:

some of the comments in this thread are so disturbingly wrong I wonder how you guys ever pk anyone at all

oh wait, some of you don't
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Xenyar
Emissary


Joined: 26 May 2010
Posts: 596

PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2016 4:24 am    Post subject:

It'd suck pretty bad to be level 44 and manage to kill some completely decked cabaled 50...and not be able to wear one damn thing from the loot because all of the shit is level 50.

We've been through this already...and I'm convinced there is no happy median with this topic....
minimal restriction - complain
heavy restriction - complain
add shit luck because too many rares over your rank - complain(btw I hated when rares affected luck)
back to minimal restriction - complain.

For one, like Ozaru said, pay attention with you char training and save yourself some heart ache.
Two, I've never had a problem with lowbies(or any rank) having nice equipment... all that means to me is I now have the opportunity for my black-tear wearing level 27 char to soon be decked in winter shit after remove all-drop all, get winter stuff from corpse.

If you kill somebody decked, you're happy with your new equipment.
If you die to somebody decked, you complain about their equipment.

Time to roll a DK and niche 25(maybe 27-fireball).
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divsky
Emissary


Joined: 13 Mar 2004
Posts: 1054
Location: Iowa City, IA

PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2016 12:57 pm    Post subject:

The only rares being restricted should be the end-game rares. We don't need to punish a level 20 for having a mithril vest or a white gold bracelet. As a rule of thumb, I'd say anything that you get relics for obtaining (Winter bosses, underworld bosses, etc) should be restricted to 42+. Not to 50, if you can contribute to a Winter run you should be able to share in the eq rewards.

But I don't think that's even the real problem. The real problem is trash niche pkers who hang out at level 25-28 purposefully to get trash kills, knowing that if they hang around that level long enough they can deck themselves out in ridiculous rares and one-round people with their 60 damroll fire giants.

Saying "Oh but you can beat them and when you do it will feel so good and you'll be able to take all their rares" is like saying "Oh cancer isn't that bad because it feels so good to beat it!" I'd rather just not have cancer to begin with.
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divsky
Emissary


Joined: 13 Mar 2004
Posts: 1054
Location: Iowa City, IA

PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2016 12:59 pm    Post subject:

Also I don't like having niche pk ranges to begin with. Why is cabal application level 25 only? All cabal warfare happens at level 50 and the first thing they'll want you to do when joining a cabal is power-rank to 50. So why do we make people join at level 25?
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ewils03



Joined: 05 Jan 2015
Posts: 153

PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2016 4:01 pm    Post subject:

I do like divsky's idea with having to be rank 42+ to wear end-game equipment, that's a fairly solid idea and really isn't asking too much from players. A reason to join a cabal so young is to help establish you within the cabal, get a solid grasp on how it's being run, and to get help training as you go along. I wouldn't want a cabal member of mine to hit 50 and only be trained up through 25. But if others are wanting, I see no reason why we couldn't push the max to 30 to join, that still gives time to go through the typical stages for the character to learn cabal life. Not everyone is going to be happy with every change, obviously, but I'm fully behind putting divsky's idea for end-game item restrictions to be implemented.
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ewils03



Joined: 05 Jan 2015
Posts: 153

PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2016 4:03 pm    Post subject:

Max level to join a cabal is really up to the leaders, anyway, even though that restriction can be wavered without much fuss. There are still some characters that jump cabals here and there. Kewlin was one of them, he was in three different cabals.
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Mikoos



Joined: 03 Nov 2012
Posts: 474

PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2016 10:15 pm    Post subject:

I like it where things are. Personally I'd rather the game have more freedoms than restrictions.
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Nycticora



Joined: 09 Feb 2013
Posts: 2277

PostPosted: Sat Jan 23, 2016 4:40 am    Post subject:

I've tried more times than I can remember to eliminate the level restriction on cabal joining, Divsky. Every mortal cabal leader, every single one ever, has independently re-implemented it. No amount of imms sending notes to cabal or whatever can fix it if it's what players want. Mortal cabal leaders have the authority to make policy changes. If you don't like it use the autoinduct quest, and if the autoinduct quest is obnoxious bug it. That's the best I could do.

I'd love to remove level restrictions but there isn't a good way of doing gambled equipment without it. I'm against having any restrictions whatsoever on non-gambled equipment and I think as a matter of policy we no longer have any non-gambled (except gambled dropped by mobs or otherwise created outside a shop, which do have level restrictions) restricted items. If that's incorrect we should probably discuss it.

You might be able to convince me we need level restrictions on equipment but you'd have to make a pretty good case. The worst failure mode is extremely bad: underleveled player kills a mob for a badass rare, can't wear it. This should only be done for decisions the player himself has made and that can be detected by the player in advance (like material and alignment restrictions). That's so if this situation develops, the player had a means of avoiding it and can learn to apply it in the future.
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Nycticora



Joined: 09 Feb 2013
Posts: 2277

PostPosted: Sat Jan 23, 2016 4:53 am    Post subject:

also, on the original topic of the thread, there is no such thing as too much level 25 trash pk

if you get dunked at 25 with a 10 or 20 hour old character as a newbie you roll a new character

if you get dunked at level 40 with a 150 hour old character as a newbie you post a wall of text in the forum and leave, never to return


more level 25 pk will literally extend the life of this game

if it were up to me, so much trash pk would happen at level 15 to 25 with 1 to 5 hour old characters that under 20% of characters would even survive to level 30. This is how the game was for the better part of 15 years
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Ozaru



Joined: 01 Jun 2010
Posts: 1073

PostPosted: Sat Jan 23, 2016 8:01 am    Post subject:

the game has to evolve with the times. Every game now is instant gratification this game is the polar opposite. Having more pk at lvl 25 is not fun for the 30 year old father of 3 working full time who just wants to master disarm so he can apply for warlords doesn't want to deal with some dumbshit dkn fireballing the king of hobgoblins.

15 years ago we had a lot more time with this game and mind you it was still fairly new at this point. I started in 98 so a lot of us were just learning the game and more willing to deal with that kind of crap. Now, ain't nobody got time for that shit.

I don't want this game to turn into do 5 quests and your level 50, but it would be cool to build reputation credits where you get a lvl 50 char with fully mastered skills and spells. I know I went off topic, but its late and im just trying to master disarm so I can go to sleep.
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Nycticora



Joined: 09 Feb 2013
Posts: 2277

PostPosted: Sat Jan 23, 2016 8:03 am    Post subject:

"nothing to do" or "too much lowbie pk"

pick one, there's no middle ground
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Davairus
Implementor


Joined: 16 Jan 2004
Posts: 10344
Location: 0x0000

PostPosted: Sat Jan 23, 2016 11:09 am    Post subject:

I would never have had this problem at level 25 ever. I would in fact enjoyed kicking the crap out of these so-called "trash".
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Xenyar
Emissary


Joined: 26 May 2010
Posts: 596

PostPosted: Sat Jan 23, 2016 8:12 pm    Post subject:

Mastering skills has nothing to do with lowbie pk. It's a pk game.. pk starts at level 10.
I personally enjoy fighting my way up through the ranks. It's a pity these days you can practically power rank to 50 without being in a fight at all. Pk away on your way to 50, build reputation/rp, make rivals, and enjoy what the game is for. "A player killing mud".
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