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The event "The Assault on Taekir" is beginning in 1 day, 12 hours.

Shadow ghostwalk
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Sevaush



Joined: 26 Mar 2016
Posts: 30

PostPosted: Sun Apr 17, 2016 8:08 am    Post subject: Shadow ghostwalk

Can i ask why are shadows given barrier that is more efficient than mage classes? It's akin to warriors having barriers.

They even have a hasting mechanism to go with it.(shadow machine or smth)
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m1coftw



Joined: 05 May 2015
Posts: 265

PostPosted: Sun Apr 17, 2016 11:07 am    Post subject:

they still get pwnt by monks.
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Davairus
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Joined: 16 Jan 2004
Posts: 10344
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2016 12:58 am    Post subject:

Unlike those mage things you mentioned, ghostwalk is affected drastically by hitroll. It would be great if someone came at you with a zero hitroll. If the shadow seems to be ghost walking a lot, chances are he's blowing mana at a ridiculous rate and will be oom within seconds
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Sevaush



Joined: 26 Mar 2016
Posts: 30

PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2016 4:42 am    Post subject:

Here is my take on shadows. They are dealing way too much damage given barrier.

Look at his damage! He brought a decked monk in leopard down in 5 rounds +1 murder round using physical weapon. Who does that? (maybe raged berserkers)

The ghostwalk can be toggled on and off in combat, so they dont have to be walking around in ghostwalk. (Is there a cooldown between ghostwalk toggles?) I think it is a little too buffed at this point.
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Sevaush



Joined: 26 Mar 2016
Posts: 30

PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2016 4:45 am    Post subject:

House of Tasgall

[Exits: north]
(Translucent) (White Aura) Shikuro is here.
(Translucent) (White Aura) Wuron is here.
An Ofcol cityguard is standing here, making sure there is no trouble.
A citizen is here, smiling at you.

Shikuro's life drain devastates Wuron!
Shikuro's life drain devastates Wuron!
Shikuro's thrust maims Wuron!
Shikuro's life drain maims Wuron!
Shikuro's thrust maims Wuron!
Shikuro's life drain maims Wuron!
Shikuro's life drain decimates Wuron!
Shikuro's life drain devastates Wuron!
Shikuro's thrust maims Wuron!
Shikuro's life drain devastates Wuron!
Shikuro's thrust maims Wuron!

The end of Swiftest Way

Wuron has fled!
Wuron limps north.


Holy shit, 11 attacks? Is there a coding problem here? Are you guys seeing this?
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Davairus
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Joined: 16 Jan 2004
Posts: 10344
Location: 0x0000

PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2016 5:24 am    Post subject:

There are rounds of combat every 3 seconds, and player murders are executed independently of those. Its possible for them to string together in the same "instant". I could disable that, but it'd definitely be a huge nerf to illusionists.
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Merlandox



Joined: 31 Mar 2016
Posts: 258

PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2016 5:36 am    Post subject:

Wow....
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Sevaush



Joined: 26 Mar 2016
Posts: 30

PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2016 5:46 am    Post subject:

I do understand that. That was 11 attacks on two rounds. Meaning one murder of 5 attacks and 6 attacks going through. 11 attacks in total. Shadows have third attacks and the chance for 3rd attack working for both PRIMARY WEAPON, SECONDARY WEAPON and for TWO rounds. That is 3 out of 4, 75% proc ratre. Not even warriors with 4th attack procs that often. Granted he may be really lucky since this could be a one off situation. In this senario, the PALADIN did ZERO damage to him, because the 3s combat round did happen.

So in that two rounds. the PALADIN literally blocked ZERO attacks with his defences and did ZERO damage. Because in two rounds, the max number of attacks he can have in dual wield is 12. So MAYBE the paladin blocked ONE attack.

but when in one fight, he gets...

Entrance to the forest

[Exits: north south]
(Translucent) (White Aura) Shikuro is here.
(White Aura) Wuron is here.

Shikuro's slash devastates Wuron!
Shikuro's slash decimates Wuron!
Shikuro's thrust devastates Wuron!
Shikuro's slash maims Wuron!
Shikuro's slash decimates Wuron!
Shikuro's thrust decimates Wuron!
Shikuro's weapon advantage overcomes Wuron's parry attempt.
Shikuro's slash decimates Wuron!
Shikuro's weapon advantage overcomes Wuron's parry attempt.
Shikuro's thrust devastates Wuron!
Shikuro's slash devastates Wuron!

Wuron has fled!
Wuron walks south.

Trail south of forest

[Exits: north south]
(Translucent) (White Aura) Shikuro is here.
A trapper stands here, bartering his pelts.

This was the second instance. The paladin literally did ZERO damage to him for both instances if the 3s combat round did happen as what you said.

This is happening almost consistently.

Shikuro is a very experienced player, so it may be that he's just playing it really well. But if my murders consistently deal that kind of damage and I have a skill that negates damage, I'll just turn in on in combat and murder you down in that 5 murder rounds. I dunno, but I think they definitely have some buff to their damage in some ways and IMO, it is too strong. From where I see it, this is the performance that you get from a illusionist hasted warrior class. Without haste, murders dont do that kind of damage. That's my 5c. Time will tell. Enough about shadows for me!
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Nycticora



Joined: 09 Feb 2013
Posts: 2277

PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2016 9:05 am    Post subject:

what log is that from? link the whole thing in the logboard

it's not useful to post out of context logs
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ottif



Joined: 08 Jan 2015
Posts: 310

PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2016 9:13 am    Post subject:

The guy was doing 180 dps at level 42 to shopkeepers in mudfall. You guys def should take more time to test these changes out imo clearly not much testing was done here. He was out DPSing a geared 50 berserker raging clearly that is broken without even seeing it in pvp. while changes are nice I'm unsure why the shadow class which was really strong to begin with needed all these buffs
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Sevaush



Joined: 26 Mar 2016
Posts: 30

PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2016 9:19 am    Post subject:

These are taken off the livestream, so it is not a full log. My fights with Shikuro was too simple and it was bugged, so nothing to learn from there. Others who have fought can post the logs. I'm just questioning the DPS from shadows. As I say earlier, this is the performance of a hasted warrior class. 50 murders rounds from a ranger unhasted do not even give you 1 round of that. Combined with full damage evasion from ghostwalk. That is my point on this basically.
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Nycticora



Joined: 09 Feb 2013
Posts: 2277

PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2016 9:26 am    Post subject:

wuron didn't seem dissatisfied and nobody posted logs so I'm not going to worry about it. Not saying nothing needs tweaking just that the jury is still out. If something's really busted we'll fix it. But in some situations ninjas should be dealing a shit ton of damage. They did lose assassinate, and that's a big deal.

Don't correlate "fair" with "balanced". Just because you got nuked by a fat round doesn't mean the class isn't balanced. Also, just because ninjas are dealing a lot of damage doesn't mean they are dealing too much. You have to compare them to alternatives also.

And there's a giant difference between the average ninja and one that's fully geared. A fully geared anything will wreck your shit and need a gangbang.


Last edited by Nycticora on Mon Apr 18, 2016 9:34 am; edited 1 time in total
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Sevaush



Joined: 26 Mar 2016
Posts: 30

PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2016 9:29 am    Post subject:

Ok! Sounds good!
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Nycticora



Joined: 09 Feb 2013
Posts: 2277

PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2016 9:34 am    Post subject:

I edited my post a bunch cause I was high
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ottif



Joined: 08 Jan 2015
Posts: 310

PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2016 10:15 am    Post subject:

ninjas are supposed to deal a lot of damage quickly, not have a constant high output of damage that beats every class in the game. Read the help file. It is not fair or balanced that a class with the highest non pet dps in the game can also hide, vanish, cloak his location, hide anywhere, dual offhand damage, weaken you in three ways (dirt, nerve, caltraps) then teleport to your location. It is not fair because classes are supposed to have pros and cons. Nothing new there. Again, it is as simple as just reading the help file. It is not balanced to have a bunch of damage mitigation, a bunch of damage and then vanish better than illusionists. It is also not fair that most other classes will not have a way to handle this.

can't we test changes more thoroughly? waiting for complaints from the 'right' people is not a good strategy to game balance. In the past year I've seen a ton of glaringly OP cheese things stick out like sore thumbs, but only get changed depending on who suggests it - dks being a perfect example. Plenty of complaints but no changes until someone specific makes the exact same points everyone else had been.

I love the direction you're going with shadows but you can't just beef up a class with one hand and not at least nerf it a little with the other hand. Especially with Burzuk having essentially "Capped" power/cheesy shit in this game. Now as you super buff these classes, you leave the rest of the non op classes behind and sorely lacking. Then in attempts to bring the underpowered (Burzuk age) classes up to speed you way overcorrect. I mean DKs at on point could make you hallucinate what kind of ridiculous ish is that from a class that can also blind you, take no combat skill lag and secretly heal themselves ? Not fair. Not Balanced. Glad it was fixed, unfortunately I think people are getting turned off before you guys can fix some of this stuff. I mean I for one have stopped putting much effort into PvP once I realized vamps can just constantly poof away from you without much effort at all. Cheese may have made the game fun in 1995 but I don't think it is now.
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Nycticora



Joined: 09 Feb 2013
Posts: 2277

PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2016 10:26 am    Post subject:

"the right people" might just be people who don't obviously not know what they're talking about.

what skill did DKs have that made people hallucinate
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Merlandox



Joined: 31 Mar 2016
Posts: 258

PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2016 10:39 am    Post subject:

that is a vamp skill. Lol.
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Sevaush



Joined: 26 Mar 2016
Posts: 30

PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2016 10:49 am    Post subject:

Anyway, to be fair, I dont expect the Imms to nerf shadow dps just because I brought it up as too buffed, but just dont discount it because Wuron did not complain.

The shadow took down a fully gears monk in leopard in 6 rounds using a physical weapon. That speaks huge volumes, so perhaps the imms should take a closer look at it. Out dpsing raging berserkers and consistent 8-11 murder attacks. Without haste this performance is almost impossible even for warriors.

To top it up they have hide to get the jump with huge dps and 100% damage reduction. I'll take the mana penalty anytime unless the penalty for ghostwalk is ridiculously high which I have yet to test it out.

Just take a closer look and consider the dps is all I ask.
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Moondog



Joined: 10 Aug 2015
Posts: 24

PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2016 1:51 pm    Post subject: you mean this

Entrance to the forest

[Exits: north south]
(Translucent) (White Aura) Shikuro is here.
(White Aura) Wuron is here.

Shikuro's slash devastates Wuron!
Shikuro's slash decimates Wuron!
Shikuro's thrust devastates Wuron!
Shikuro's slash maims Wuron!
Shikuro's slash decimates Wuron!
Shikuro's thrust decimates Wuron!
Shikuro's weapon advantage overcomes Wuron's parry attempt.
Shikuro's slash decimates Wuron!
Shikuro's weapon advantage overcomes Wuron's parry attempt.
Shikuro's thrust devastates Wuron!
Shikuro's slash devastates Wuron!

Wuron has fled!
Wuron walks south.
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m1coftw



Joined: 05 May 2015
Posts: 265

PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2016 3:12 pm    Post subject:

3rd attack
dual wield

So basically, you can do 6 attacks per round with ANY class, even more as warrior.

Merge 2 rounds, you can easily get lucky with up to 12 hits in a row.

I remember people crying about monks as well, then when the storm settled, they realized that with every perk they may see from the logs also come a different set of maluses.

Before you play the class, it may seem OP to you, but if it is so OP, roll one and start rekking faces. If you cant do that, then maybe its not the class thats op?
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