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quasits

 
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raginggnome



Joined: 11 Feb 2004
Posts: 135

PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2016 3:53 pm    Post subject: quasits

So, not really noticing the 16 strength I decided to roll up a quasit and try out the new race. Are there many shields in the game that they can wear, and with 16 strength how heavy of a weapon can a quasit wear? I found a shield that was considered light armor and it was still to heavy for it to wear. Really wish I kept my combat shield so I could see how light it is, it's the only shield I've been able to wear so far.
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Olyn
Immortal


Joined: 23 Jul 2008
Posts: 3243
Location: Pennsylvania

PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2016 4:12 pm    Post subject:

Armor type indicates amount of protection that armor style/material offers, and is independent from its weight. This is outlined in the first sentence of armor type helpfile.

If you're looking for shields, why not try the codex?
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Slogosh



Joined: 23 Jul 2016
Posts: 27

PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2016 6:12 pm    Post subject:

Finely crafted dwarven shield is fine or dragonblood metal shield.
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divsky
Emissary


Joined: 13 Mar 2004
Posts: 1054
Location: Iowa City, IA

PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2016 6:25 pm    Post subject:

Wait, I just read Olyn's post. Does heavy armor offer more AC than light armor? I thought the only difference between the armor classes was that heavy armor took advantage of the holy/unholy armor skills and that light armor was the only armor usable by monks. And that if you're not a monk, paladin or dark knight it made absolutely no difference at all.

Should I be paying attention to classes of armor in other classes?
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Slogosh



Joined: 23 Jul 2016
Posts: 27

PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2016 7:39 pm    Post subject:

Code:


Object 'templar coat plate mail' is type armor, material gilded silver.
Extra_flags: glow anti_neutral.
Made to be worn over the torso.
Weight is 40 lbs, value is 2, level is 50.
Armor class is 19 pierce, 18 bash, 17 slash, and 5 vs. magic.
Armor type is light.
Affects constitution by 3.
Affects save vs spell by 3.
Rare item.

Object 'a bloodstained cuirass' is type armor, material steel.
Extra_flags: glow hum anti_neutral.
Made to be worn over the torso.
Weight is 50 lbs, value is 10, level is 50.
Armor class is 13 pierce, 11 bash, 13 slash, and 10 vs. magic.
Armor type is heavy.
Affects constitution by 5.
Affects save vs spell by -5.
Affects health by 40.
Rare item.

Object 'ivory plate mail' is type armor, material ivory.
Extra_flags: anti_evil anti_neutral no_locate.
Made to be worn over the torso.
Weight is 40 lbs, value is 1, level is 50.
Armor class is 14 pierce, 15 bash, 14 slash, and 17 vs. magic.
Armor type is heavy.
Affects dexterity by 1.
Affects damroll by 1.
Affects hitroll by 3.
Unique item.




Code:


Object 'dark oak gauntlets' is type armor, material wood.
Extra_flags: anti_good.
Made to be worn on the hands.
Weight is 5 lbs, value is 3000, level is 30.
Armor class is 8 pierce, 8 bash, 8 slash, and 9 vs. magic.
Armor type is medium.
Affects damroll by 2.
Affects dexterity by -1.
This item is part of the set 'Treant Thews'.

Object 'arm guards red' is type armor, material dragon.
Extra_flags: anti_good.
Made to be worn on the arms.
Weight is 15 lbs, value is 2900, level is 20.
Armor class is 8 pierce, 9 bash, 9 slash, and 0 vs. magic.
Armor type is heavy.
Affects dexterity by -1.
Affects damroll by 2.
This item is part of the set 'Fiery Fangs'.



Armor light medium heavy type does not indicate ac nor indicate weight. It is more arbitrary and supposed related to what the armor material is and only supposed to impact if armor type hampers your class. Weight on tier 2 non-rare armor is terrible. So is the AC.
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Nycticora



Joined: 09 Feb 2013
Posts: 2277

PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2016 7:49 pm    Post subject:

https://www.google.com/webhp?q=independent+definition
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divsky
Emissary


Joined: 13 Mar 2004
Posts: 1054
Location: Iowa City, IA

PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2016 8:13 pm    Post subject:

Just because an item IDs at a certain AC doesn't mean that's the AC it actually gives. Torso armor gives four times the AC it shows when you ID it.

Olyn made it sound like armor type did something similar.
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Slogosh



Joined: 23 Jul 2016
Posts: 27

PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2016 8:34 pm    Post subject:

I chose three torso type for ac. If the arbitrary flag changes ac then it is easy to test.
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Olyn
Immortal


Joined: 23 Jul 2008
Posts: 3243
Location: Pennsylvania

PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2016 8:48 pm    Post subject:

To clarify, armor type does not affect armor class in any way.
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Davairus
Implementor


Joined: 16 Jan 2004
Posts: 10340
Location: 0x0000

PostPosted: Fri Aug 05, 2016 2:47 am    Post subject:

I doubt that is true or if it is right now will gradually become untrue. I mean there is a strength limit imposed by the game code which I crafted. But at the same time if you look at the highest armor items in the game, like the suit of ice armor worn by the baron in winter, its probably armor type heavy. Its going to influence the builder who prefers to put high AC on these heavy plates as it would be seductive to do that. Whereas for rogue items, leather, the AC would be probably less and the damage-offering stats like dex/damroll quite a bit better represented, also very seductive to do that.

If that is not the case then our builders are going against simple human nature. Poor monks, that's all I can say in response to that...

I expect this to be true before we even started assigning armor types to everything. Actually I remember there was some argument over a heavy woolen robe for this reason
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Slogosh



Joined: 23 Jul 2016
Posts: 27

PostPosted: Fri Aug 05, 2016 4:49 am    Post subject:

Does that mean you want ac to relate to armor thickness? If builder is seduced to put damroll and dex on light armor and just AC or light on hitroll/damroll and heavy AC on heavy armor, then everyone warrior, monk, or rogue, will wear light armor, because trading damage ability to get more ac is inferior for warrior, monk, rogue. AC only good if it come as secondary product on nice hitroll/damroll. I will take spiked collar over plate neckguard any day.

AC looks made to balance against stats for level. High stats on low level item, low ac. Moderate stats, moderate ac. And so on. AC and stats such as damroll grow with level, rarity, item difficulty to get. All done without considering item weight or item class weight. Class weight does not exist in prior versions.

In addition to more ac and more damroll or other stats, items also get heavier. Weapon weight grows much towards 50. So does armor weight like ice armor, gothic plate, and the rest. Bows too. All things get heavier as they get stronger along with more ac and more damroll or hitroll and other things.

This all looks intended for balance. You can carry more with each level, things get heavier. Heavier things keep strong armor and weapons out of reach for low level character but only using one or two, not as many as they loot from a winter rare stack corpse.


Last edited by Slogosh on Fri Aug 05, 2016 5:07 am; edited 1 time in total
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Davairus
Implementor


Joined: 16 Jan 2004
Posts: 10340
Location: 0x0000

PostPosted: Fri Aug 05, 2016 4:59 am    Post subject:

I'm telling you what builders are gonna be inclined to do.

Like I would make a heavy bracer for armor and a light bracelet for magic properties
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