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The event "The Assault on Taekir" is beginning in 17 hours, 59 mins.

Blind and Order all rescue
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Ozaru



Joined: 01 Jun 2010
Posts: 1073

PostPosted: Wed Dec 07, 2016 8:30 am    Post subject: Blind and Order all rescue

When you blind a target they shouldn't auto redirect an attack at you after you order all to rescue makes no sense how a blind target can re aim at you when something else rescued you
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beia



Joined: 18 Mar 2006
Posts: 920
Location: Texas

PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2016 4:14 am    Post subject:

I agree.
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Olyn
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Joined: 23 Jul 2008
Posts: 3244
Location: Pennsylvania

PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2016 11:42 am    Post subject:

I see your point, but this would drastically buff tanking with pets, necros most of all. If we made this change, it's possible you might end up seeing more area_attack mobs (swing attacks).
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Nycticora



Joined: 09 Feb 2013
Posts: 2277

PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2016 7:27 pm    Post subject:

I don't like swing attacks except in rare cases (many bladed beasts etc). I also don't like it when mobs that are blind do things they shouldn't. I think about making a change to this every time I see it happen and decide it's too hard every time, because I think people will complain about pets being too powerful if I just fix it outright.

I'd be down with trying to just fix it without changing mobs and seeing if anybody complains. It would make the game more fun IMHO.
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Vanisse
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Joined: 06 Jan 2006
Posts: 2793
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 10, 2016 3:18 am    Post subject:

what if it was a chance of redirect instead of 100% redirect?
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Nycticora



Joined: 09 Feb 2013
Posts: 2277

PostPosted: Sat Dec 10, 2016 11:20 am    Post subject:

I think it is now but I couldn't find it in the code.

It's a conveyance thing really, it should work on mobs similarly to how it works on players.

The most realistic thing would be to make the mob flee if it's blind and fighting a pet. That might be exploitable.

I always think about how mobs don't react properly to getting disarmed (they keep parry) every time I think about this problem.
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Olyn
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Joined: 23 Jul 2008
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Location: Pennsylvania

PostPosted: Sat Dec 10, 2016 1:41 pm    Post subject: This post is awaiting validation

This post is awaiting validation
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Ozaru



Joined: 01 Jun 2010
Posts: 1073

PostPosted: Sat Dec 10, 2016 5:51 pm    Post subject:

you're welcome
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Davairus
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Joined: 16 Jan 2004
Posts: 10344
Location: 0x0000

PostPosted: Sat Dec 10, 2016 7:50 pm    Post subject:

Being able to flashfire/dirt kick and then kill some boss mob with zero redirects is incredibly cheesy and it will diminish mobs severely, so no, Nycticora. you shouldn't do that. You also need to run these things by me. before you even start talking about it. This will save you some antagonism in the future.

I would be literally soloing every mob in the game with just rangers, and so would ozaru. That's just the first way I thought to exploit this easily. It would be so easy to exploit.

ozaru, please grow a pair, you rolled mage so tanking is harder than it was when you only played rangers, boo fucking hoo. maybe you should stop doing the social outcast thing and invite someone to your group like the rest of us do when we roll mages . I'm writing you on my idiot list again. Youre on it three times now buddy
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DigitalText



Joined: 29 Jun 2016
Posts: 88

PostPosted: Sat Dec 10, 2016 9:38 pm    Post subject:

On board with 'nays' on this one. I don't think it's exclusive to AR either. The boss mobs on a MUD I used to play wouldn't even have to redirect attacks if blinded when charmies rescued you. The boss mobs had hitrolls that would <insert damage noun here> everything in the room. Blind or not. And good luck blinding them with anything besides dirt kick. And even landing dirt kick was pretty scarce. So while somewhat unrealistic, I don't think it's unreasonable. Yay for characters with stomachs that disintegrate their own waste, too. Cool

..reminds me when I'd roll mages and go toe-to-toe with a 'warrior cabal' (they had their own version of the cabal dynamics). Mage lands charmie rescue, warrior dirt kicks mage, warrior redirects attack at mage, mage can't order a rescue because he/she is blind. Man those were tough fights, also because only area spells could hit said warriors.

...sorry. Nostalgia.

Stare
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Ozaru



Joined: 01 Jun 2010
Posts: 1073

PostPosted: Sun Dec 11, 2016 7:57 am    Post subject:

Oh Davairus keep shacking your fist at the sky and telling people to get off your lawn. You truly are what is wrong with this game, you are blockbuster wanted to charge late fees while netflix has stolen all of your customers right under your nose.

For the record the idiot list has only your name on it. You were gifted a beautiful game that was flourishing with plenty of players and was fun and exciting. What did you do? You put your stamp on the game driving out probably 90% of the player base.

1Idiot move number 1: Combat system/weapon match-ups
Instead of making this game less of a grind and more fun, lets complicate the hell out of it driving away many veteran players in the process also making it increasingly difficult for new players to learn. But I am sure people will appreciate the complexity this game brings! The proof is in the pudding we all sit around playing chess in our dorm rooms instead of awp_map

2. You know what lets take away warlords and install keepers that will balance the game and create a cabal with a great purpose. These guys will kill you for your precious rares with insane cabal skills, items and weapons, not to mention meh if you kill one, you don't get shit.

3. Lets take away monks druids psionicits and vampires for about 15 years that will show them how streamline the game is. Then I will buff zerkers beyond belief, bring back monks with no real change other than instead of monks using different stances within combat modules everyone uses 2 stances.

4. Oh lets bring back warlords with no change AT ALL FROM 15 YEARS AGO that will bring back those old players who are now married with kids and jobs with 0 time to play.

5. Lastly lets overcomplicate the fuck out of ninjas making them supremely unbalanced, but now no one cares to play them. Oh lets not forget invokers, all that time invested but no one plays them either.

6. But wait we have surges and thanksgiving day all day surges, so I can ask people to help me rank or get items, crap its 10pm my kids just fell asleep and its just me and lorne online. All I have is my necro and I blinded a mob and cursed and weakend him and he is still hitting me with 4 mutilates every round. I guess Ill go back to dota 2.

7. For the record I did ask for monks and warlords back about 10 years ago, maybe if you listened then you would ahve a better legacy with this game instead of a blackhole where the countless hours you have devoted into something that you personally ruined. Wrap that it in your idiot list, smoke it and take a hard look in the mirror.
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Olyn
Immortal


Joined: 23 Jul 2008
Posts: 3244
Location: Pennsylvania

PostPosted: Sun Dec 11, 2016 12:39 pm    Post subject:

Ozaru, your post was entirety off-topic. I invalidated rather than delete it to make sure Davairus understands your position. Everything you complained about, except for return of warlords and recent changes to monk, invoker, and shadow class, took place in the Burzuk era.

If you meant to link them to this topic, you forgot to do it. This post and the last one can be deleted once it's been read.
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Ozaru



Joined: 01 Jun 2010
Posts: 1073

PostPosted: Sun Dec 11, 2016 3:15 pm    Post subject:

And his post wasn't , burzuk may still have been in charge but at that crap was Davirus idea
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Ozaru



Joined: 01 Jun 2010
Posts: 1073

PostPosted: Sun Dec 11, 2016 3:17 pm    Post subject:

Btw just create a new topic then and call it things I don't like that's a topic
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Ozaru



Joined: 01 Jun 2010
Posts: 1073

PostPosted: Sun Dec 11, 2016 3:30 pm    Post subject:

One last post if you agreed with my post davaurus thinks you are an idiot too. This guy won't be happy until he drives everyone away
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ottif



Joined: 08 Jan 2015
Posts: 310

PostPosted: Mon Dec 12, 2016 5:54 am    Post subject:

Nyc does that regularly actually, which would give anyone out of the loop the impression that he actually runs things.

To Ozaru all of that stuff was Burzuk's idea. I liked it too, so I'm not trashing it, but Dav was not steering the ship at that time. And I don't think Dav is trying to run everyone out of the game, but it is no secret you are the new m1co around here as far as that goes.
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Nycticora



Joined: 09 Feb 2013
Posts: 2277

PostPosted: Mon Dec 12, 2016 8:58 am    Post subject:

I do what regularly? all I really do around here is discuss game balance
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Davairus
Implementor


Joined: 16 Jan 2004
Posts: 10344
Location: 0x0000

PostPosted: Mon Dec 12, 2016 9:02 am    Post subject:

ozaru, please make sure you direct that anger where it belongs, I'm sure you wouldn't have gone off on me like that if you understood correctly who was really responsible for all that shit you just complained about.

Although I didn't come up with the idea myself, I am the owner of the game and that makes me responsible for those problems ozaru mentioned existing now. As a matter of fact, I agree with ozaru to an extent on the combat style stuff. Those skills work well and are fun to use for seasoned vets, but they have been making people feel stupid and/or bad at the game. And I really think that is a BAD state for the game to be in. We obviously need to think of something better, because it isn't worth it. I will add to that, to an extent I feel I just allowed Burzuk to do a lot of dumb stuff. I felt like the game was rightfully his and I guess trusted his lead, because he seemed like such a strong leader, but I know I let you guys down. I'd step so far as to say he likely felt let down by us too for that matter, because we didn't really go about the right way to convince him those moves were errors in any reasonable way at all. You can't stay mad at people for just raging and leaving but it is obviously pretty immature. But as for me, I carried guilt from that era for years and I would like you all to know that it won't ever happen again. I ALWAYS listen to you people, from newbie to imm, and I do my best to let everyone know I want feedback - its funny you mentioned ninjas because we had a forum feedback thread and I made so many changes from feedback, go read the thread and you'll see for yourself. You can also see a "changes you dont like" thread that has existed since 2011 that has always been reliably read and followed up on. We've been trying to recover from that Burzuk-era damage and I got Nycticora immed especially because he could see that damage better than any of us. Obviously I didn't imm him for his people skills, so the Legion imming turning out to be fantastic was a welcome bonus. Nycticora is the top 3 of best Legion imms if he isnt flat out the best of all time (we have been lucky to have some very fine Legion imms). The rest of us I believe we have all suffered a little from Stockholm syndrome with that Burzuk era, even myself included. Its hard to fix problems that you can't see because you've accepted things without really questioning. I think any pain that era of the game has caused truly needs to be aired properly from the playerbase so we can fully comprehend it and see what's to be fixed - honestly, I've been really trying to make you people feel safe to say what you want, and the stupid idiot thing is supposed to be just a silly running gag.

I've spent the last 2 months working on druids and that's where all my attention is going. After that, maybe we should take a look at the big picture again. I don't see fixing that combat style stuff as our number one priority for now and I'm not sure if it is after. But, I would love to get more players on the game and I think we ought to all put our heads together on that. A wider discussion of newbie-friendliness would be a good thing to have. We could build a list of things to fix or add and just put combat styles as one of the things on it.
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Vanisse
Immortal


Joined: 06 Jan 2006
Posts: 2793
Location: inside a tree

PostPosted: Wed Dec 14, 2016 9:39 pm    Post subject:

Here's a random idea related to combat styles. What if there was an "auto combat" option for new players or those who are less inclined to pk, but who would get outright turned off the game being steamrolled 100% of the time. The auto would help with transitioning combat styles if you keep available options in your inventory, with a slight lag (similar lag to mobs that change styles perhaps? I think shire mobs used to do it). People who pk manually as they do right now would still have an edge and can take full advantage of all the skills they've built over the years, but a newbie would no longer be completely defenseless. Seeing the automated switches would eventually teach you by example what matchups are preferred in any given situation, so if a newbie wanted to, they could eventually take the training wheels off.

Also, I am all for a bigger picture discussion.
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Ergorion



Joined: 16 Mar 2007
Posts: 2156

PostPosted: Wed Dec 14, 2016 10:06 pm    Post subject:

I think auto-lagging newbies will result in more newbie deaths.

The biggest factor in successful pk is knowing when you have put your opponent on his back heel and pressing the advantage. Newer players struggle with recognizing at what point a fight has become hopeless and should run.

Switching to a combat style advantage when you're almost dead and your opponent is mostly healthy may be the right tactical move but strategically it will result in a loss especially if such a switch is automatic and induces lag.

This would also most likely develop poor skill timing for newer players as a lag introduced from an auto-switch would disrupt the ideal time for the proper skill (sideswipe or dirt kick).
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