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The event "The Assault on Taekir" is beginning in 14 hours, 9 mins.

Blind and Order all rescue
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Ergorion



Joined: 16 Mar 2007
Posts: 2156

PostPosted: Wed Dec 14, 2016 10:08 pm    Post subject:

I think a newbie pk development thread might be in order. I'll try to think of some ways we could facilitate navigating the harsh learning curve of AR pk.
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Nycticora



Joined: 09 Feb 2013
Posts: 2277

PostPosted: Thu Dec 15, 2016 12:10 am    Post subject:

the only thing you can do to facilitate newbies learning to pk is to make a bunch of trash level 15 characters and fight each other like AR is an arena deathmatch game like we used to do in 1999
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ottif



Joined: 08 Jan 2015
Posts: 310

PostPosted: Thu Dec 15, 2016 12:15 am    Post subject:

Dav I think Nyc has brainwashed you into thinking Burzuk was this unimaginable terror on the game. Everyone doesn't feel that way at all, and a lot of Ozaru's points (berserker's being retarded, ninjas being just silly now, etc.) are right on target.
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Nycticora



Joined: 09 Feb 2013
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 15, 2016 12:23 am    Post subject:

I don't like publicly badmouthing Burzuk because he was still making the changes he thought would make the game the most fun at the time. It's just that Burzuk was the imp during most of the changes Ozaru listed.

My opinion of Burzuk should be irrelevant, but it's that he did not understand the impact of his changes and didn't know how much content he was removing from the game by making certain decisions.
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Davairus
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 15, 2016 2:09 am    Post subject:

You guys have posted feedback, I've read it, made updates, and now I'm waiting for more feedback. If you haven't said anything further constructive, you can't reasonably expect changes. Its just illogical. There was like one ninja who ran roughshod, I nerfed that guy's strategy specifically, he disappeared, and all complaints stopped. Berserkers? Seemed like Lorne did great, but nobody has since replicated it. Correct me if I overlooked something, but until then and since I haven't heard anything I will keep trying to get druids ready.
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Dogran
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Joined: 13 Jun 2009
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 15, 2016 3:46 am    Post subject:

I am highly excited to hear you are working on Druids, Keep up the good work Dav.
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Ergorion



Joined: 16 Mar 2007
Posts: 2156

PostPosted: Thu Dec 15, 2016 4:31 am    Post subject:

No one can change the past, man.

The game is where it is right now. So we can either work together to make it better or point fingers at phantoms.

,,,
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Ozaru



Joined: 01 Jun 2010
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 15, 2016 5:46 am    Post subject:

The topic of this post was about blind order all rescue. Not the rest of this crap that was brought up. And Dav I bet your balls are super clean from the ballwashing that goes on here.

Honestly what really bugs me about mages is that they are supposed to be smarter than the hack and slash melee types. If I blind you, you shouldn't be able to hit me as much, if I weaken you, you shouldn't be able to hit me as hard and so forth right? Especially since that is how pvp is. A monk has 3 defenses and heal. A warrior has 4 defenses and 4 possible attacks and more con for better regen. A mage has 1 defense and spells to weaken the target. WHy is a mage unable to use their spells to make life easier? It makes no sense that I need to say hey mr monk come help me kill something, especially when the pbase doesn't support that. Of course if a monk is on and he is willing to help your damn right I am going to ask him. But if he isn't, the solution is to farm gold to buy random equipment? Thats not fun, thats why people don't play mages. Make abandonedrealms great again make the game easier and less of a grind.
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Ergorion



Joined: 16 Mar 2007
Posts: 2156

PostPosted: Thu Dec 15, 2016 6:08 am    Post subject:

Mages can solo the shit out of anything. Ozaru I think your mentality aligns with warrior classes. If you think like a mage you can run the shit out of this game in pve. Dm if you don't get it.
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Lorne
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 15, 2016 6:38 am    Post subject:

Ozaru, you frankly just aren't very experienced at playing mages if you have issues killing mobs on one. Necromancers and illusionists are easily two of the best solo artists in the game. I don't really understand what you're saying. When you weaken/blind/slow/etc. a mob they do actually hit you less often and less hard...like that actually happens. So yes, your skills as a mage when used on mobs, does in fact work as intended.

The builders have made this game sooooooooooo much less of a grind. I don't think it can get any easier, if it does it will really hurt the integrity of playing a pinnacled character. I doubt you'll be deleting so often if you couldn't just refresh your plate every 20 hours or less. Back when you actually needed to devote 80-100 hours before your character means anything is way in the past.


Last edited by Lorne on Thu Dec 15, 2016 8:28 am; edited 1 time in total
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Ozaru



Joined: 01 Jun 2010
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 15, 2016 7:39 am    Post subject:

why dm just explain it for everyone. I don't understand the secrecy involved in this game
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Ergorion



Joined: 16 Mar 2007
Posts: 2156

PostPosted: Thu Dec 15, 2016 8:12 am    Post subject:

Illusionist: dupe dope shit. Have them deal a fuckton of damage. Done.

Necromancer: raise an army. Have them deal a fuckton of damage. Done.

Invoker: cast barrier and/or mana shield. Cast AOEs. Slow yourself so you regen mana like a motherfucker. Done.
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Davairus
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 15, 2016 9:35 am    Post subject:

It is so easy to solo with a mage charmie class, you just have to rescue with autoassist off and order the pets to kill the mob manually. I've literally soloed the sea dragon this way with a level 50 illus. This thread is a total waste of time.
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Lorne
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 15, 2016 10:06 am    Post subject:

^Truth.
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ottif



Joined: 08 Jan 2015
Posts: 310

PostPosted: Thu Dec 15, 2016 3:45 pm    Post subject:

Necro and illusionist are a breeze to solo but Invokers are the strongest, they can solo anything given the right amount of time. There's no comparison, Ozaru you just are completely misinformed and unaware. With poison, weaken, plague, etc. etc. etc. why do you even need blind anyway. I used it entirely to prevent the mob from reengaging not to try and use it as a strategy to avoid being hit.


Lorne was just a hoarder there isn't much to getting the best gear in the game and raging. No offense just stating facts (I have logs of me being number 1 and asking Lorne over a month to duel and not even so much as 1 response). I don't blame him tho, the odds weren't in his favor fighting a healer in titanium tenors.

But I pointed out berserkers doing something like 400 damage in one round and at the time I believe Nyc told me I was wrong, that I was too used to seeing hellstream damage or some nonsense, at which point I posted a log proving the berserker one round damage. at the time you guys just implied I was whining over nothing and changed the subject. So people do bring forward real issues just not always in the way you want to hear it perhaps.
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Lorne
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 15, 2016 6:47 pm    Post subject:

^lol. Please send me the logs. This thread has really derailed. Moving on.
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Davairus
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 15, 2016 8:49 pm    Post subject:

A berserker that rages also loses dodge, and the damage bonus of rage does not do enough to recuperate that difference. We can talk all day about how big that bonus is, but it doesn't make up. He's letting you deal double damage to him so that he can deal less than that to you, and also is locked in a combat style which you should be able to easily exploit. Unless there are BIG mitigating factors present (like berserker is using slash on illithid, or berserker has physical resistance - which, by the way, is precisely what Lorne was leaning on) that is taking a very high risk. In fairer circumstances he will clearly lose.

What's could possibly beating you is the temporary hp bonus and the berserker greater hp per level. If you stay around in the fight long enough for that to matter, you will concede it. That class is an obvious powerhouse of hp that can absorb tremendous punishment and you may also need to get out of the fight early and let him fall into stun. I predict if you try to go from 100% to 0% with a berserker raged you will lose before he hits big nasty, and you actually need to figure out a way how to lengthen that fight and out-regenerate him (which by the way, is easy if they rage, because they also lose the ability to sleep). There are other ways to do this - poisons, plagues, etc, but obviously there are classes who have the work cut out for them.


It really looks more like punishment absorbed to me not so much doing 400 a round. Any idiot can do 400 a round. I don't think it would be insane for rage to temporarily remove any natural resistances though. Those make things kind of easy mode if they are ignored, and they are annoying with weapon selection vs his combat style. The rage skill is servicable enough that taking true damage shouldn't ruin it.
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Nycticora



Joined: 09 Feb 2013
Posts: 2277

PostPosted: Thu Dec 15, 2016 11:14 pm    Post subject:

I don't think taking true damage is a great idea, zerks are in a really good spot right now. They've been underpowered for a long time. I think it's dangerous to mess with them. Any change should be well thought out and small.

It's not a stupid idea but it looks like a strict nerf to giant races, and Lorne's performance was not stellar enough to warrant such a nerf. If it was some idiot who doesn't know how to play wrecking the pbase I might have a different opinion.
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ottif



Joined: 08 Jan 2015
Posts: 310

PostPosted: Fri Dec 16, 2016 12:18 am    Post subject:

I remember circumstances where I was playing a warrior vs a berserker and it just didn't seem fair and I posted logs too. I started with an frostbrand kept combat advantage and then switched to a magic staff with overhead after rage and the berserker didn't do anything but rage;bodyslam and won by a significant margin. When you have 900 hp and do 300-400 damage a round, sacrificing dodge isn't a huge deal imo. Rage I think should prolong a battle not turn the tides completely.
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Davairus
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 16, 2016 12:58 am    Post subject:

The HP advantage is out of your control but you should be able to deal as much damage. Your logs and forum posts don't explain why you won't still win this battle with attrition (out-regenerate, out-potion, healing at the priests, etc). You're implicitly telling me that you haven't been using every available resource by omission of them. It seems like you are trying to pretend that these things don't exist because they disprove your views.
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