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Nycticora
Joined: 09 Feb 2013 Posts: 2277
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Posted: Sun Dec 18, 2016 5:39 am Post subject: |
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It's not unpreventable. You prevent it by ganking the berserker before he gets stacked. |
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Kornhole
Joined: 15 Aug 2012 Posts: 370 Location: Melbourne, Florida
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Posted: Sun Dec 18, 2016 5:59 am Post subject: |
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First and foremost I DO NOT PLAY SERKERS. That being said, I would like to chime in. All those who say berserkers are wholly whoopass....PLAY ONE!!! If you think it is as easy as rage/bodyslam, you are a dumbass. UNPREVENTABLE???? If they have frenzied and raged....move around big monsters....WTF is wrong with all of you??? If a class is THAT overpowered in any MUD you will see the whole PBASE rolling said class, I have seen it before. /Endrant |
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Merlandox
Joined: 31 Mar 2016 Posts: 258
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Posted: Sun Dec 18, 2016 6:15 am Post subject: |
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Well Kornhole, you can only move around big monsters IF you survive that rage warcry/bodyslam. A big IF. Of course once you pull away, there are many things you can do, no doubt. Anyway, I don't think berserkers are OP. As I said, they have distinct weakness, but they are a little too strong against fighting classes. /endrant !
Nyc, that's a great idea. Thanks. Who knows? Maybe when he rage, all 3 players die to the swing? LOL. |
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Nycticora
Joined: 09 Feb 2013 Posts: 2277
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Posted: Sun Dec 18, 2016 7:12 am Post subject: |
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did you guys forget that the entire game is balanced around pvp survival or something? it is not at all a given that some berserker will be able to get fat equipment
yes it is working as intended that Lorne can roll you with any class |
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Ergorion
Joined: 16 Mar 2007 Posts: 2156
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Posted: Sun Dec 18, 2016 8:16 am Post subject: |
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I feel like the frustration is this:
Newbie in winter gear gets beaten by a vet wearing sub-optimal equipment. (Not rolled mind you, just beaten) and thinks if he could get beaten in this manner then he should be able to beat someone in winter gear while he's using sub-optimal equipment.
You have to know your own skill level. Hell, I have pk'ed so many n00bs with naked characters because I know where I'm at. I knew at the time how much damage a naked illu could dish. I knew how much a monk could heal.
Equipment helps a lot. It if you over extend yourself or let yourself fall into traps you will lose. If you are decked and someone beats you with sub-optimal gear, don't fucking whine. Look back at the fight and see what mistakes you made. How did that motherfucker capitalize on those mistakes? If someone is decked and is rolling you every time you fight. Don't whine either (a) Gank the motherfucker (b) keep at it until you win or (c) don't fight the asshat
Last edited by Ergorion on Sun Dec 18, 2016 8:17 am; edited 1 time in total |
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ivindel
Joined: 20 Nov 2015 Posts: 163 Location: Singapore
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Posted: Sun Dec 18, 2016 8:16 am Post subject: |
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To put things in perspective:
Starting HP:
Ivendel: 629/724 HP Krug: 297/991 HP
Ivendel starts with murder and Krug rages:
Ivendel: 629 HP Krug: 548 HP
After Round 1: Ivendel lags 1 round due to murder
Ivendel: 525 HP Krug: 470 HP
Krug warcries and stun Ivendel:
Ivendel: 473 HP Krug: 470 HP
After Round 2: Ivendel is stunned
Ivendel: 252 HP Krug: 339 HP
Krug berserks and Ivendel is still stunned:
Ivendel: 180 HP Krug: 405 HP
After Round 3: Ivendel finally is not stunned and can flee
Ivendel: 2HP Krug: 339 HP
How is this preventable? He hadn't even gotten to bodyslam yet. If he had bodyslammed instead of berserk, Ivendel would have died without a chance to flee at all.
Krug was using shit equipment compared to Ivendel. Ivendel was using an enchanted frostbrand and enchanted icicle and was doing mangles and massacres to him through tenacity.
When warrior-classes fight at the 50s, it all comes down to who can dish out the most damage in the shortest possible time. When your hitroll is of a signifcant amount, it does not matter if your opponent has 0 or 3 defences, the attacks will simply go through. Simply put, it's just a bloody slugfest, hence the advantage goes to the dual-wielders.
Pre-rage, berserkers can fight just as the warrior does because defences do not matter with high hitroll. The rage/warcry/bodyslam combo gives berserkers a get-out-of-jail finisher at the most critical moment which can easily turn the fight around with the immense increase in damage and HP.
I feel that berserkers should not be allowed to chain lag an opponent like this because there is no way anyone can match their damage in these 3 rounds of lag, on top of the additional 300+ hp he gets from raging- how do you expect anyone to take him down before dieing to the ridiculous damage.
What I would suggest is to either revert the 1-round lag from executing rage (increases chance to flee) or remove the HP boost from rage (increases chance to down him before dieing to his damage). |
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Ergorion
Joined: 16 Mar 2007 Posts: 2156
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Posted: Sun Dec 18, 2016 8:20 am Post subject: |
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Elves are inherently susceptible to lag. That's a drawback you get when you choose the race. You gain autosneak which is hella powerful. If you take one specific example then you don't have a big enough sample size for a case. Rng baby. |
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ivindel
Joined: 20 Nov 2015 Posts: 163 Location: Singapore
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Posted: Sun Dec 18, 2016 8:23 am Post subject: |
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rage/warcry stun lag is 2 rounds across the board. It has got nothing to do with giants bodyslamming elves- it never got there. |
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Lorne Immortal
Joined: 20 Jan 2004 Posts: 456
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Posted: Sun Dec 18, 2016 9:28 am Post subject: |
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How can you honestly present an argument with a sample size of 1? I try to keep PC on the forum but that is just retarded. You guys keep quoting the same god damn fight. Like you're asking the builders to go and spend hours changing skills because of it. Ergorion already posted a very plausible to why you got steamrolled, the RNG just didn't work in your favor. Nut up, get some gear and try again. Gangbang him or if you think it's so easy as the fire berserker, roll one up and own face.
I myself have taken advantages of certain race/class combos that were very effective against the metagame at the time and having great success (had a very accomplished human shaman during the peak of their power). So feel free to join the pwnage if you think there is one. |
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Nycticora
Joined: 09 Feb 2013 Posts: 2277
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Posted: Sun Dec 18, 2016 9:37 am Post subject: |
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let me summarize:
Merlandox: "getting bodyslammed to death by a pimped out berserker is unpreventable"
Nycticora: "you prevent it by stopping him from getting pimp eq"
Ivindel: "how is this preventable?" |
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Merlandox
Joined: 31 Mar 2016 Posts: 258
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Posted: Sun Dec 18, 2016 10:18 am Post subject: |
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Look Nyc, let's be clear. I said rage/warcry body and not chain body. Warcry is a guaranteed lag. If you chain it into body it's a guaranteed 4 round lag. On the other hand, chain bodyslam has diminshing returns, lower lag time against giants etc etc.
So I never said "getting bodyslammed to death by a pimped out berserker is unpreventable". I was just targetting very specific combos that in my opinion making berserkers a little too strong against fighting classes.
But whatever, i rest my case. |
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Nycticora
Joined: 09 Feb 2013 Posts: 2277
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Posted: Sun Dec 18, 2016 10:40 am Post subject: |
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idk why warcry is causing lag in the first place
but none of you are saying what you want us to DO
what is the ACTION you want us to TAKE
do you want warcry nerfed?
I'm kind of against changing anything because this thread was about caster classes getting rescued, if I was the OP I'd be pissed off right now |
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Merlandox
Joined: 31 Mar 2016 Posts: 258
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Posted: Sun Dec 18, 2016 11:22 am Post subject: |
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Eh i did post a suggestion earlier. That is to reduce the lag time on warcry. |
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Davairus Implementor
Joined: 16 Jan 2004 Posts: 10344 Location: 0x0000
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Posted: Sun Dec 18, 2016 11:47 am Post subject: |
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Over the weekend I've engaged in a little bit of tweaking of berserkers. I saw it as an opportunity for a decent warm-up, before I get too deep in the weeds with druids... it should also give us more interesting discussions than repeating this same old claptrap.. :<
I'll find a couple of respectable players to run through all the things before it gets unleashed on people's trained level 50's. Shouldnt take me too long. It will be a longer review process than I used with shadows since we had a lot of pain there. |
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Merlandox
Joined: 31 Mar 2016 Posts: 258
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Posted: Sun Dec 18, 2016 1:43 pm Post subject: |
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COOL! |
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