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Berserker updates Dec 2016
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Davairus
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2017 12:16 am    Post subject:

He is the patron of Knights cabal who have had a legion of berserkers. Is that not good enough for you? I suppose next you will be saying he isn't a dragon. This is obviously argumentative and unproductive.
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Vevier
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2017 12:29 am    Post subject:

Having berserkers in the cabal is not a good enough reason for me. There have also been a pile of rangers in the cabal, but we aren't basing ranger specs off that.

The base gods seem to have been decided without support from the lore and you will not get me to stop saying that by being dismissive.
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Davairus
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2017 12:44 am    Post subject:

The berserkers would've been invited into the realm's politics around the time of the Great war, in response to overwhelming orc invasion. Sarich is obviously that time's "king arthur" Immortal figurehead so what I've written in the dragon ancestry helpfile is supported by this. This is a critical plot detail and its why I've chosen it.
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Nycticora
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2017 1:56 am    Post subject:

let's chat next time we're all in-game about what ethos means in the context of religion because I don't think we're all on the same page
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Vanisse
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2017 3:33 am    Post subject:

based on the religion helpfiles, I would assume Aberdour to be more appropriate for the role of good-berserker deity; his followers are already indicated to be berserkers, as well:

Code:
Like the lioness taken by Aberdour as a pet, the followers of Aberdour value
courage, strength and possess an unrivalled zeal for cleansing Serin of the
prime evils.  Their instinct for heroism leads them to choose death over
surrender.  Examples of Aberdour's followers are the dwarven berserkers
and warriors that protect Storm Hill.


To quote the full last paragraph of help Sarich:

Code:
Followers of Sarich display a deep regard for mercy, in stark contrast to the
ruthless assassination that was carried out on their monarch.  They value
life in all of its forms, believing that there is always goodness to be found
and saved, even within the most tormented of souls.  An example of the great
influence of Sarich can be found in the Knights of Valour, a group that does
not merely follow, but actually lives by, its code of virtue.  This tempers
their aggression with goodness, ensuring that revenge does not rule them.


From help dragon ancestry:

Code:
Fury: The masters of fury are favored by the golden dragon, Sarich, for their
ability to control rage to direct it where it truly belongs - upon evildoers.
These berserkers will aggressive only on evil when raged, and although lack
the ability to use MANIA, they are able to exercise more control over their
rage with their RESTRAINT ability. 


The restraint aspect of the Fury spec fits Sarich very well; what I think Vevier is saying is that the "high regard for mercy in all alignments" part of help Sarich is what doesn't support the spec because the berserkers are ultimately still unmerciful to evils. The Sarich helpfile suggests that his followers do not see things in black and white and are able to be forgiving. Aberdour and Soluminus, in contrast, are sworn to purge all evils. Incidentally, those two deities are both gods of goodness and chaos.
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Davairus
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2017 5:52 am    Post subject:

I could make relaxing easier for Sarich spec. I dont really want to do an Abe zerker this round but in the future there is obviously room for Aberdour, Diocletian and Darkhan specs
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Vevier
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2017 6:17 am    Post subject:

These lawful specs would be much more palatable if they came at the end of the spec chain. With so many distinctly aligned gods, we should start with the ones that play to the core concepts about what we as players know. Dav, I think you have a good case for your lawful guys, but it's too hard a sell for me on opening day of zerker specs. It's so misaligned with what we know about zerkers that you have proposed allowing them to roll lawful. When was the last time even true neutral was available for a zerker?

(I'm not just saying that because I get to keep mine, either. 😉)
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Davairus
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2017 2:03 pm    Post subject:

this work was much more than just adding specs to berserkers. It was also a considerable overhaul of how their fury and rage work, and mania addition was equally as important an update to rage. the old school of thinking was that a berserker is just a crap warrior that also has epileptic fits in combat for some reason or another (Odyns gift?). What we are discussing here is not the same class, but even if we were, it still would be worth a discussion.

Whats really confusing about this is knowing I made these design decisions way over a year ago before working on the Thalos quest revamp and it has been sitting in wiki in development for any imm to read for equally as long, I am curious why none of our imms seem aware of any of that.. I can understand it from players because they have little insight into what we are doing but imms had full access to read and raise these complaints for over a year and honestly none of imms shouldve waited until i did all the coding a year later to start telling me all the shit that needs to be redone. I am sure I have offered it up for peer review repeatedly. So if someone could explain to me why exactly that didnt happen it would be great. And while youre at that maybe also explain why its not worth discussing opening the ethos on the forums to include the players who actually make berserkers. Because from where i am sitting this all looks and sounds pretty damn unhealthy
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Vanisse
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2017 3:05 pm    Post subject:

Let's be fair now... I can see now, after the fact, that you put a lot of effort into the wiki pages. Since you're confronting all imms in your post: the way I've been using the wiki is solely to extract info I need to look up or if I am synchronizing with people on a project (e.g. olc quest syntax, or area revamps). There's no notification in any of the usual channels (in-game or forum) that would indicate if anything was updated over there that I should be reading. Other imms (Olyn, Ceridwel, Vevier) that had something in progress and wanted others' input would post a link to their wiki page with an explicit request for review. If you have always expected us to frequently check everything that was put on the wiki and offer unsolicited commentary, I missed that memo. And I don't recall any requests to look at the berserker wiki on the forum or in-game (may have missed in-game notes).

Perhaps we should have an imm meeting to get everyone on the same page again because I think we've not done that in far too long.

At any rate that is off-topic to the main post. I think the better control of relax would be nice for Sarich berserkers.
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Davairus
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2017 3:36 pm    Post subject:

For wiki, you have to click a link to "watch" the pages you want on your radar (its at top of every page). I usually just use the recent changes link, and filter by last 30 days, but I do that fairly frequently out of habit. I would have to urge you guys to use "watch", at the very least, on the main page, because that way you can get notified in the wiki when someone adds a new link to that page, and then add yourself as a watcher to the newly-created pages if you think you need to. I forget to add commentary sections to my pages but I dont mind graffiti
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Vevier
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2017 4:00 pm    Post subject:

This was the first I heard of zerker changes and I was really excited about everything until the lawful stuff came up. Deflecting the points we are making because we didn't check the wiki, which I use as Vanisse described, is pretty low. Obviously if we had seen it we would have said something earlier. No one is saying your code is bad, but we have concerns about the skin.
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Davairus
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2017 4:50 pm    Post subject:

I've redone the Davairus evil/lawful spec as a Resatimm evil/neutral spec. I liked the death theme there more. I made the blood bath skill available to ALL berserkers so that they can all sacrifice to the almighty, that's perfect for me. There is still no way to spec Sarich and I will solve that by opening up neutral ethos if the poll goes well. Otherwise I may just delete instead of fixing because I don't want to deal with rigidity any more
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Davairus
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 07, 2017 6:05 pm    Post subject:

I've decided I'm happy with the poll being divisive as I have a very clear mindedness about my decision. We're going to add a few more berserker specs, open neutral ethos to facilitate picking and get back to work on other stuff. If you guys have anything you want to spec into let me know. Here are what specs we're considering

true neutral virgil spec (the yin-hang dragon): relax casts calm.
shadow berserker (chaotic evil) darkhan spec. i have no idea what we will do with this one as it seems to overlap with legion
aberdour spec. gules lions special roar (possibly remove prot shields with enough fury?)

These are in brainstorm phase .
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Davairus
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2017 10:58 am    Post subject:

1) Neutral ethos should now be open, for those of you who wanted a Sarich berserker.

2) I've added a DIOCLETIAN spec as I noticed that in use in Warlords and I felt it to be a good fit for berserker. The Diocletian spec is intended to enhance the berserker's presence, or to put it more matter-of-factly his effectiveness at intimidation.

Code:

Glory: The masters of glory are favored by the dragon slayer, Diocletian,
because of their pursuit of perfection and fame. These berserkers have a
more intimidating presence in combat, with their GLORIOUS HEART causing
anxiety for those that get on the wrong side of them (and, of course,
if their opponents are not immune to that).


Just so we're clear, I've reminded you in this helpfile that there are some creatures and races that are fear-immune and this spec will not perform at its best against them. That's all I am interested in doing as a "penalty" for running this berserker spec, my goal here was mainly to make them a bit more tanky and good vs the environment (this is not approached as a strictly pk'ing spec). I have hardcore choices already if you want to try them.

Code:

'GLORIOUS HEART'
Syntax: gloriousheart

Some berserkers are known to follow the path of glory on their way to
power.  These berserkers are favored by the god Diocletian, himself infamous
for slaying a dragon dressed in only a great sword and a loin cloth.

Masters of glory, these berserkers are bestowed a stronger heart than
ordinary mortals, one which is capable of beating as loudly as a war drum.
When the berserker's heart is beating for battle, foes that hear this sound
are more easily intimidated. Their shaken confidence causes their attacks to
be less effective (per the PROTECTION CREATURE affect), and much more
susceptible to the devastating affects of the berserker's ROAR ability.

Although there are some creatures of Serin that are resistant or even immune
to fear to begin with, consunmate cowards and weaker creatures may even be
induced to cower underneath the berserker's roar.

See also: CAUSE FEAR


Sorry, the helpfile got kind of long.

I wanted to buff all berserker abilities that use fear/intimidation, but that turned out to only be roar. Protection creature is a stand-in. The mentioned "cower" affect should be familiar ; it does exactly the same thing as the quasit fear fetish. This fits in perfectly with berserker supposedly being useful for crowd-control also, and I've been trying to build on the use of fear in the class as its an emotion that's quite similar to anger. I am already thinking having that going on with rage is probably too good in all honesty, so I'm here waiting for you guys to tell me to just make that bonus "for mobs only". I don't want to ruin it by being overly worried that I am creating a spec that could get cheesy, but the hammer will fall fast when you guys give me the notice. please try it first and see.

Not in the helpfile but glorious heart gives a bit of fury, you'll find that is useful to increase the effectiveness of their next ability, like being able to rage or maybe get over 50 fury for a stunning warcry. You can easily get more fury out of it by just wearing more glowing stuff. I don't plan to document that, I think it'll be very easy to figure out.

3) Pixie berserkers were removed. Apologies for abruptly cutting content but there are some very good reasons for doing so. I've strengthened the berserkers connection with the Immortals and that race loses its innate abilities if it joins religions. It goes against the grain in a really bad way. Also, the feedback about having pixie berserker has been very negative, most people seemed to think it was a joke combo.
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Davairus
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2017 1:02 am    Post subject:

New Zylenier spec, inspired by our pal bladefurry!

Code:

Destruction: The barons of destruction are favored by the destroyer,
Zylenier, for their total sadism.  Substituting the skill of relax
for MELTDOWN and mastering the ability to DECAPITATE their opponent,
these monsters on the battlefield are a force to be feared.


Code:

'MELTDOWN'
Syntax: meltdown

Masters of destruction forgoe relaxation techniques to escape rage,
preferring instead to unleash all of their fury on their victims and
themselves in a ferocious meltdown.  Note that in order to calm down, the
berserker must be fighting an opponent.  Meltdown is more effective at
higher levels of fury. 
 



Code:

'DECAPITATE'
Syntax: decapitate

The barons of destruction aren't into the finer things in life,
such as flower picking, herb collection or singing carols around
campfires with the Knights.  No, these monsters frequent the lands to
swing their axe at someone's throat.  The decapitate ability may
only be performed against targets of very low health, with a two-
handed axe, and is very dependent on combat styles.  However, it
is one of the very few abilities that may be executed in rage,
and sure to be a flashy finish.
 
Note that the decapitate ability allows the berserker to kill
things in situations where something may normally have saved
their victim (example: illithid shock).


Thanks pal!
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