Forum Links 

Click to return to main page
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Private MessagesPrivate Messages   Log inLog in 
 Current Top Five Rated Killers 
 Next Event   Voting Links 







The event "Renewal of Thanks" is underway, and ends in 23 hours, 19 mins.

Announcing the arrival of illithid necromancers (elite-only)
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Abandoned Realms Forum Index -> Updates
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Nycticora
Immortal


Joined: 09 Feb 2013
Posts: 1664

PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2017 12:13 pm    Post subject:

what's fucked about animate corpse ergorion
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
 
0 0 0
Ergorion



Joined: 16 Mar 2007
Posts: 1915

PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2017 7:20 pm    Post subject:

The zombies are wet noodles until you strength damned them. So to get any decent army now literally takes hours.
_________________
Ergorion wrote:
You guys can bang while continuously spamming eq.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
 
1 0 0
Nycticora
Immortal


Joined: 09 Feb 2013
Posts: 1664

PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2017 9:32 pm    Post subject:

I remember this always being the case
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
 
0 0 0
Ergorion



Joined: 16 Mar 2007
Posts: 1915

PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2017 11:21 pm    Post subject:

It used to be they were all somewhat decent and the strength damned would get them to a good spot. The way they are now you're really fighting hamstrung until you get them damned. The change to animate corpse is why I deleted my necro.

http://abandonedrealms.com/players/display.php?name=Grazztyn
_________________
Ergorion wrote:
You guys can bang while continuously spamming eq.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
 
0 0 0
Nycticora
Immortal


Joined: 09 Feb 2013
Posts: 1664

PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2017 11:51 pm    Post subject:

ok let's move this to the thread about nostalgia, we can look up that delete date and find the code changes from then to look deeper at the problem

if you read that graveyard thread you will see why this didn't get fixed when you brought it up the first time. We needed to have a meaningful discussion in the battlefield forum about the problem and instead we had a freakout rage delete in the graveyard. I'm not blaming you, it sucks to have your character impacted by a nerf like that and you have your right to a flameout, but the flameout does not help fix the problem. There's extra work required after you calm down. We are all in this together and it's not trivial or easy.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
 
0 0 0
kento



Joined: 03 Nov 2004
Posts: 285

PostPosted: Thu Jan 26, 2017 12:30 am    Post subject:

Freaking sweet- This is awesome. Thanks for still working towards cool diversity options.
_________________
I can't remember wrote:
Gnomes are overpowered, especially as rangers
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
 
1 0 0
Davairus
Implementor


Joined: 16 Jan 2004
Posts: 8110
Location: 0x0000

PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2017 9:10 am    Post subject:

He is referring to that change we made that you need to use strength damned to get the zombies hasted or whatever. It was accompanied by giving zombies the ability to trip, which they couldn't do for ten years before. Overall this increased the power cap on necromancers but gives them a weaker start which was on purpose. Skeletons serve the purpose of helping get your damage going, NOT your fresh squishy zombies.

When I first made those changes, Ergorion complained I had buffed them because there were already 3 necro in the top five, which I told him was stupid. And here we are.

The necromancer class takes time logged in to reach full power. However, after it reaches that point, everyone rightly will be cowering in terror. That is the intended design of the necromancer class in the game. Its all a bunch of symbolism on the theme of eternal life and the timelessness of undead. I feel like I have already said this a hundred times btw. In PK terms, your necromancer has a time spent being hunted (which is soon after logging in) and if left ignored becomes the hunter. This is rewarding for smart players who understand to kill necromancers on site, and punishing for people who rest on their laurels. Uvet a great example of the latter. If you want to get to full power right away, there are illusionists for that, or warriors once you have the right gear.
_________________
AR is on Twitter Facebook
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
 
0 0 0
Ergorion



Joined: 16 Mar 2007
Posts: 1915

PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2017 2:26 pm    Post subject:

I get that. I understand necro should take time to prep. My point is, that amount of time to become viable is too long as it stands right now.

The question I would pose is: how long do you think it should take for a necromancer to go from 0 to pk-ready?

One day I spent at least 4 hours trying to prep an army and failed animate corpse something like 8-12 times in a row going for my third zombie. That shit is fucking ridiculous.

I think 1.5 hours would be a reasonable amount of time for a necro to grab a full pk-ready army.


Uvet is a bad example to use because that was literally right before the animate corpse changes. I rolled up a necro because of Uvet and got kicked in the nuts.
_________________
Ergorion wrote:
You guys can bang while continuously spamming eq.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
 
0 0 1
Nycticora
Immortal


Joined: 09 Feb 2013
Posts: 1664

PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2017 3:23 pm    Post subject:

what zombies were you failing on specifically

I am taking a look at animate corpse success chance now

did you train animate corpse? If so, how did you train it
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
 
0 0 0
Olyn
Immortal


Joined: 23 Jul 2008
Posts: 2576
Location: Pennsylvania

PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2017 3:33 pm    Post subject: This post is awaiting validation

This post is awaiting validation
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
 
0 0 0
Ergorion



Joined: 16 Mar 2007
Posts: 1915

PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2017 3:45 pm    Post subject:

I was always under the impression that the spell proficiency was just a check on whether or not you lose your concentration. Not in the effectiveness of the spell once cast. If I'm wrong on this, that sucks.

I did not train animate corpse. Maybe on the next one.

I failed on miscreantic battle trolls and another zombie that I don't want to give other people ideas about.
_________________
Ergorion wrote:
You guys can bang while continuously spamming eq.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
 
0 0 0
Nycticora
Immortal


Joined: 09 Feb 2013
Posts: 1664

PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2017 4:04 pm    Post subject:

thx olyn

Ergorion, you're wrong on that one. Spells have success/fail chances like enchant weapon, curse weapon, and animate corpse may factor your skill into that chance. The spells that don't just fizzle when they fail.

I don't think you were wrong to delete that character if puzzling this out for yourself wasn't fun to you. Not all classes are intuitive to every player.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
 
0 0 0
Davairus
Implementor


Joined: 16 Jan 2004
Posts: 8110
Location: 0x0000

PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2017 5:18 pm    Post subject:

Will mention in passing that it is ok with me (and probably will be with most other people) for animate corpse to be guaranteed with some kind of gold input into the corpse before the spell is cast. Whatever the gold is, I don't think it has to be too accurate, but it should involve the level of the zombie to help ensure a similar amount of time to gather all that gold. That way the necromancer is still spending time to get an army. Time=Money. Something from the necro guildmaster.

kill triton watchman
put "cool gem" into corpse
animate corpse --> "You destroyed the 'cool gem.'" instead of "You destroyed the corpse
And you don't get a chance to successfully raise without destroying it
_________________
AR is on Twitter Facebook
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
 
0 0 0
Vinther



Joined: 30 Dec 2016
Posts: 47

PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2017 6:38 pm    Post subject:

Why gem? Can't Necros capture souls? What if you can put a captured soul into a corpse that guarantees 100% success of raise dead.

Like an offering to the Dark Lord.

That way you can put them souls into a good use!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
 
0 0 0
Ergorion



Joined: 16 Mar 2007
Posts: 1915

PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2017 7:09 pm    Post subject:

I think Vinther might be on to something.

Instead of a soul creating a 100% success rate, I think there still needs to be a chance of failure just not mind-bogglingly frustrating, and going off Dav's comment, what if the presence of a soul in the corpse meant a failure to animate destroyed the soul rather than the corpse and you have another chance to animate the corpse.

I like the idea of having the souls be a consumable in some fashion.
_________________
Ergorion wrote:
You guys can bang while continuously spamming eq.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
 
1 0 0
Trojal



Joined: 19 Jan 2004
Posts: 25

PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2017 7:31 pm    Post subject:

I like the idea of leveraging probability, because I like probability.

1 soul could mean you don't destroy the corpse when you fail, basically giving you another "roll" at it, and you could keep using souls to keep the corpse from rotting away while you repeatedly fail like a useless person.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
 
0 0 0
Ergorion



Joined: 16 Mar 2007
Posts: 1915

PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2017 8:01 pm    Post subject:

And depending on how many inception levels we want to play around with:

Putting a soul in a corpse could decrease the chance of raising the corpse but give you more chances.

Trying to animate a soulless corpse could give a higher chance of success with the higher penalty of failure.
_________________
Ergorion wrote:
You guys can bang while continuously spamming eq.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
 
0 0 0
Olyn
Immortal


Joined: 23 Jul 2008
Posts: 2576
Location: Pennsylvania

PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2017 8:41 pm    Post subject:

I like the gem idea. It reminded me of liches putting their soul into a phylactery. Maybe the necromancer with a sufficient gem (several thousand gp) could tear out part of their own soul (temp con loss, temp max hp penalty, or something else inconvenient but not debilitating) to make the fancy gem into a phylactery, which then becomes an appropriate focus for the animate spell to boost chances or be consumed instead of destroying the corpse or whatever.
_________________
No one in the world ever gets what they want and that is beautiful.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
 
0 0 0
Davairus
Implementor


Joined: 16 Jan 2004
Posts: 8110
Location: 0x0000

PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2017 8:45 pm    Post subject:

Having a casting bonus based on the size of your soul collection seems fine, but would still rather have gold involved.
_________________
AR is on Twitter Facebook
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
 
0 0 0
kento



Joined: 03 Nov 2004
Posts: 285

PostPosted: Sun Feb 05, 2017 2:11 am    Post subject:

I think the gem idea is awesome, and means that you get a much more consistent return for the several hours you invested.
_________________
I can't remember wrote:
Gnomes are overpowered, especially as rangers
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
 
0 0 0
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Abandoned Realms Forum Index -> Updates All times are GMT
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
Page 2 of 3

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2002 phpBB Group