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Should you be able to use charmies in groups?

 
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Should we make a change to how charmies affect group xp?
It's OK to make big changes like allowing all pets in groups of 3
71%
 71%  [ 5 ]
It's not OK to make big changes but small changes are OK
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
Please don't change this in any way
28%
 28%  [ 2 ]
Total Votes : 7

Author Message
Nycticora



Joined: 09 Feb 2013
Posts: 2277

PostPosted: Sun Jan 22, 2017 1:32 am    Post subject: Should you be able to use charmies in groups?

Currently the game is set up for XP gain to be best for groups of 3, with no mobs. These are the actual rules:


If you are soloing, any mobs in your group will *not* penalize your exp in any way.
If you are grouped with another player, you may have ONE additional mob in your group to "third".
If you are grouped with TWO players, i.e. full group, you will be penalized for mobs.
Level 50s can help people rank to 50 without penalty.


Should we consider making changes to this system so that, for example, illusionists and necromancers could use pets when in groups of 2? Or to relax these rules in any other way?

I've put some thought in and I know some ways that would be interesting but I don't want to waste any time & thought on this if this is one of those systems people love and do not want changed.
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Ozaru



Joined: 01 Jun 2010
Posts: 1073

PostPosted: Sun Jan 22, 2017 1:50 am    Post subject:

this is a stupid post made by a stupid immortal
just kidding

you can already use pets, you just can't be the leader of the group if you are the one that has the pets. just order all attack thiel
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Davairus
Implementor


Joined: 16 Jan 2004
Posts: 10344
Location: 0x0000

PostPosted: Sun Jan 22, 2017 2:59 am    Post subject:

My concern is people dont bother to get real groupmates. If we do something like make it possible to send hirelings on missions to gain gold, then levelling with them probably won't be preferred over real groupmates.
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Ergorion



Joined: 16 Mar 2007
Posts: 2156

PostPosted: Sun Jan 22, 2017 3:07 am    Post subject:

I've always felt this was kind of stupid. If you're a necro or ranger, your pets should totally be able to assist you ranking and not penalize you for their presence. Being penalized for using the skills of your class doesn't make sense.
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Davairus
Implementor


Joined: 16 Jan 2004
Posts: 10344
Location: 0x0000

PostPosted: Sun Jan 22, 2017 3:15 am    Post subject:

Actually heres what my guts are saying

Class skills (zombie etc) should be useable in groups without either bonus or penalty
Pets as above, no penalty or buff.
Mercenaries should count as a groupmate (to change group of 2 into 3 and no other reason).
All of you and your groupmates charmies, pets and mercs should all be lumped into one giant group
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Nycticora



Joined: 09 Feb 2013
Posts: 2277

PostPosted: Sun Jan 22, 2017 3:36 am    Post subject:

I think class skill pets being added into a group of any size with no extra XP penalty would be fun.

The charmies would show up on "gr" and would give xp to the group if they kill something. The mobs would not positively or negatively affect XP gain in any way (only players and mobs hired would count).

These are some examples of pets that would not count for group xp penalties:
zombies & skeleton warriors
duplicates
golems
ranger animals
a mob affected by the charm person spell
ectoplasm
the nightmare, stallion, and road hog

These are examples of pets that would cause xp penalties (or being allowed to count as a fake 'third') if added to a group:
solid shadows
mercs
pets hired from the pet shop
mystic familiars
special guards
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Merlandox



Joined: 31 Mar 2016
Posts: 258

PostPosted: Sun Jan 22, 2017 4:06 am    Post subject:

'I think class skill pets being added into a group of any size with no extra XP penalty would be fun.

The charmies would show up on "gr" and would give xp to the group if they kill something. The mobs would not positively or negatively affect XP gain in any way (only players and mobs hired would count).'

-Nycticora

I think this set up is cool. Now Illu and necro can contribute more to group ranking rather than just spamming toxic flux and hob spark.

edit: Ok, I forgot illu has haste, more for necros then!
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Nycticora



Joined: 09 Feb 2013
Posts: 2277

PostPosted: Sun Jan 22, 2017 4:29 am    Post subject:

remember that making dupes costs a lot of mana, and making dupes AND keeping them hasted costs an awful lot of mana

an illusionist might only be able to sustain one dupe while ranking, it's going to dip into the dps he puts out from spells too. Letting your mana get low while ranking is making yourself a gank target.

still think it's OP? I guess there are cool interactions with mystic tendrils but that seems more like a bonus than a negative
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Merlandox



Joined: 31 Mar 2016
Posts: 258

PostPosted: Sun Jan 22, 2017 4:51 am    Post subject:

I disagree. The illusions last a long time. You dupe once, haste once, you can probably clear the entire round in a proper team. With slow on yourself, mana really isn't really a big problem for illu unless you spam hobspark during ranking which is inefficient. If the illu sustains dupes, psionic and illusionary spectre + slow, he will deal a lot of dps while keeping mana up.

Last edited by Merlandox on Sun Jan 22, 2017 5:03 am; edited 2 times in total
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Nycticora



Joined: 09 Feb 2013
Posts: 2277

PostPosted: Sun Jan 22, 2017 5:03 am    Post subject:

OK, I accept that this is a problem and I'm now open to anybody providing solutions to this problem that sound fun.
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Merlandox



Joined: 31 Mar 2016
Posts: 258

PostPosted: Sun Jan 22, 2017 5:04 am    Post subject:

Ok, this is the specs from level 50 where illusions can last an entire round. Unless illusion's time scales with level and fades really quickly at lower levels, then I guess upkeeping illusions will become a pain.

Making illusions last shorter at lower levels? That way the upkeep gets high.

Edit: That would affect low level illusionist pk strength with illusions fading really quickly. but then again, illusionist are already fodder at lower levels. Lol.
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Nycticora



Joined: 09 Feb 2013
Posts: 2277

PostPosted: Sun Jan 22, 2017 5:36 am    Post subject:

I think it's a buff to illusionist leveling speed but it doesn't seem too extreme. The levels of the dupes should be bad because the ill will be underleveled for the mob he's fighting, iirc the level cap on pre-50 dupes is harsh.

The duplicate will disappear before haste wears off. Duplicate becomes available at level 29. Only two duplicates are available until level 50. Mana cost for duplicate is higher at lower levels.

Haste is 30 mana.

35 mana duplicate duration by level
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Ergorion



Joined: 16 Mar 2007
Posts: 2156

PostPosted: Sun Jan 22, 2017 6:17 am    Post subject:

I don't think it's that big a buff. Even slowed illus keeping their groupmates spells up and using spectres and dragons and shit do run low on mana while ranking. So keeping up dupes would be an additional burden.

Unless they plan on catching ticks which then means you're trading off the spectre/dragon damage for dupe damage.

I feel like necros have always been fairly weak travel partners so this should help them contribute and will make them a more desirable groupmate.

And rangers have always been dope tanks so lets see some more rangers. Where's ozaru when you need him?
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Nycticora



Joined: 09 Feb 2013
Posts: 2277

PostPosted: Sun Jan 22, 2017 7:50 am    Post subject:

ok it seems like this is just awesome all around so I'm going to pull the trigger on it to get it in for tomorrow's surge

if you guys don't like it give feedback, I can comment it out to disable it in seconds
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