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The event "The Assault on Taekir" is beginning in 1 day, 12 hours.

That half-elf racial training bonus
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Half-elf training
I prefer playing half-elfs for most of my life
25%
 25%  [ 5 ]
I guess gnomes should be the best at learning spells huh
30%
 30%  [ 6 ]
oh god more changes D:
45%
 45%  [ 9 ]
Total Votes : 20

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ottif



Joined: 08 Jan 2015
Posts: 310

PostPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2017 1:31 am    Post subject:

Uhm if a true nub has unlocked the majority of the secrets I'm sorry they are no longer a true nub. Having hit unlocked secrets, I can tell you no level 15 nub is running around unlocking that willy nilly.

I mean besides it being completely OOC and I don't see how imms aren't red flagging that blatant fact, Erg is right it really just gives more of an edge to older players. It doesn't make any sense for people that already have 10 years of game knowledge to now have a bonus to training. They *already* know how and where to train the best and the fastest, why do they need it to be even easier for their new char at level 7 or 30? Getting skills to 100% is a huge huge bonus in this game, and really this change would hypothetically benefit me a great deal since I've got a bunch of scripts to auto train from about level 12 on. Giving someone who knows how to get all the best gear and where with just one or two other people, keys to half-elf training on all their chars is clearly a bad idea... (and let's be honest it will overwhelmingly be the vets benefiting) I'm genuinely surprised you think it is a good idea. You want to leave a legacy there are other ways of doing it that are purely RP based and don't give some people's account huge leg ups.

You think a nub is going to still play after they get steamrolled a few times knowing that the person steamrolling them has a special affect on their account that allows them to learn skills extra fast? The answer is no... I can't express how terrible of an idea this is.
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Davairus
Implementor


Joined: 16 Jan 2004
Posts: 10344
Location: 0x0000

PostPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2017 2:47 am    Post subject:

Ok, we can reword some bullshit helpfiles so it isnt OOC as you think. I don't want this to bother anybody in that kind of a way. I think it will be really good for the game and a very likeable change, especially since we won't be getting overrun with half-elves anymore (very poor). I was checking the account of someone who trains a lot and found they had 56 characters, lots of giants, and long given up trying to find secrets at this point, so I'm pretty sure they are going to like it. If anything it gives them a renewed interest in getting them.... That's the kind of person I am targetting. I don't care about the newbies on this one - newbies are very well cared for. You can show them secrets, depending on if your character gives a shit. There will be skills added for Mystics to help them discover secrets more easily, so students of the realms who thirst for knowledge can be pushed in the right direction to find it on their own

this is how bladefurry will feel when he rage deletes a character and logs in with his secrets retained a week later : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qdvqTNSU-Gg
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Andrael



Joined: 15 Jan 2013
Posts: 779

PostPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2017 3:06 am    Post subject:

This is literally nothing new. Secrets giving the training boost has been a thing since they took the increased training away when you hit level 36. Its been that way for years. I remember that change happening with like Mkatos, Luranita, Mikoos running around...
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tayyah



Joined: 20 May 2011
Posts: 597

PostPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2017 3:58 am    Post subject:

You have played 56 characters for 2219 hours.
Half of those are level 50, and this is just since mid 2014 when the dashboard was implemented. I really am tired of doing the secrets over and over. this is silly. And yes. That person is a new person, I have interacted with them a lot. and Yes, by level 30 they were at that title. I haven't even gotten that title since invocation was shut down (loved the secrets app they had) So don't tell me this is just a "vet only" thing. new people are probably WAY more prone to doing it because it is new to them.
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ottif



Joined: 08 Jan 2015
Posts: 310

PostPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2017 4:29 am    Post subject:

Hey you are going to stick with this idea regardless so I'm here for it but the question is will the secrets of past deleted chars be grandfathered in?
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ottif



Joined: 08 Jan 2015
Posts: 310

PostPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2017 4:34 am    Post subject:

Quests were on invokation. How is a level 30 getting to zodiac, winter, etc., and killing the required npcs to get to that title as a nub? Sounds like bullshit.
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tayyah



Joined: 20 May 2011
Posts: 597

PostPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2017 4:37 am    Post subject:

The old quests are the new secrets. that list that was on invocation is the secrets now
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DigitalText



Joined: 29 Jun 2016
Posts: 88

PostPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2017 5:17 am    Post subject:

I thought about this for a while, (and have some things to type about the posts, but won't put them out there) and I'm for this. Anyone else think it'd be cool to have an account of secrets you've discovered as a player 'blinking' on your dash?
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ottif



Joined: 08 Jan 2015
Posts: 310

PostPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2017 4:24 pm    Post subject:

So that has changed? Secrets and quests are now the same thing? Cuz the last time I played they were totally separate. Some were granted via quest the same as some are granted via kills. A lot of the quests on invokation are still the same (pub, timaran alchemist, liberty, seringale, etc. etc. etc.).
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tayyah



Joined: 20 May 2011
Posts: 597

PostPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2017 6:29 pm    Post subject:

that's not what I said at all otiff. let me explain. the old quests. like eh ones ten years ago. like looking at the globe in the sewers or respect dim and gamma. those are the secrets now. as far as I know none are from killing anything at all. these are the ones that were on invocation. these are the secrets that affect the title under your description. done some traveling to experienced Explorer. this all above are the "secrets" . the quests are under questor and are completely different and not what this discussion is about at all.
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ottif



Joined: 08 Jan 2015
Posts: 310

PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2017 12:02 am    Post subject:

Okay so no you seem to still be wrong. There are still quests from ten years ago that are... still quests and not secrets. All secrets (the gold thing that pops up) affect the total number listed I think via the secret command? Although Dav might have added questor to the unlocked secrets bit which actually might help your point of a lowbie having unlocked many secrets. And if you don't know that killing npcs grants 'secrets' I'm surprised you're pretending to know so much about the subject.. Haven't you ever killed the usurper of seringale? <-and that's a low level one
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tayyah



Joined: 20 May 2011
Posts: 597

PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2017 12:20 am    Post subject:

naw I wasn't really thinking about it. there's npcs but all low really that I can think of. secrets are under area. it says how many are in that specific area and how many you have done. there might be some in winter and shit but I haven't looked. and I'm really not making it up man. I don't want to call the character out now because he's passed 30 and doesn't have the new tag anymore. and to be honest I don't know if quests do actually advance that title because I don't do those either. I just know after not doing very many secrets it moves I've done thirty ish and I'm done a fair amount of traveling. and I've done like 10 regular quests . the regular quests like necromancer in acedamy etc as far as I know don't do anything except what they do when you complete them. relics/exp etc. he'll there probably could be secrets that are killing hard shit I don't know I don't do them. Your right. I bake and post. just getting feathers ruffled. but I do know that quests and secrets are completely different as I explained
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tayyah



Joined: 20 May 2011
Posts: 597

PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2017 12:29 am    Post subject:

Id like to change that actually, I only have 3

You have...
1. Test Your Might (VIII)
2. Test Your Might (VI)
3. Talked with Trees
3 quests completed.

34 mysteries solved.

has done a fair amount of traveling.

I believe the proposed is to make the Mysteries alone take on the half elf bonus and make it stick to your account so you perm have it done. and you can get it half there from all common areas. just explore. they'll put it in the help files. whats the problem with this? Leaving quests the way they are. I just really don't get the argument that's all man
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Davairus
Implementor


Joined: 16 Jan 2004
Posts: 10344
Location: 0x0000

PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2017 12:40 am    Post subject:

I apologize for adjusting the naming scheme. I wish I had gotten it right the first time but I didn't, so that's why it was confusing. Reading help quest should clear it all up.

http://www.abandonedrealms.com/search.php?search=quest

I have something else helpful in the works which I will add into the helpfile when it is done.
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ottif



Joined: 08 Jan 2015
Posts: 310

PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2017 1:17 am    Post subject:

It is def confusing not sure why the need to change the name in the first place. Secrets sounded better imo anyway.
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Davairus
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Joined: 16 Jan 2004
Posts: 10344
Location: 0x0000

PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2017 1:57 am    Post subject:

Reasons you'll find out soon enough.
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Dogran
Immortal


Joined: 13 Jun 2009
Posts: 1794

PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2017 3:51 am    Post subject:

I like it.
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Davairus
Implementor


Joined: 16 Jan 2004
Posts: 10344
Location: 0x0000

PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2017 2:17 am    Post subject:

So just want to post a quick note on something in this thread here because I feel this a recurring worry lately and its causing an unhealthy amount of unrest, and its headaches for me too. ottif, I'm writing this mostly for you, but I would like everyone to read it too anyway.

The game changes will inevitably coded and enforced one way or another, and as a player there's not much you can do about it happening until it has. But there is also a whole team of Immortals and I always make sure I have their agreement when we do go ahead and code things, we always address those concerns first early on, like for instance it was Resatimm who wanted the illithid necromancer to be an undead necromancer because illithids as non-undead are literally antithetical to being necromancers. We are agreeing and there is also a leader (me) who not only is a required agreement but also as LEADER holds the EXCLUSIVE right to overturn any changes that aren't working, we call it the implementors veto. In order for me to make that call, I need to listen to you - and I will! So please, don't feel small, or unimportant. Your voices are the most important above all, even more than my own. But I would like you to also, please, realize that communicating to me in a manner that is respectful is a crucial detail for me to be willing to listen. It cannot be fully understood and exactly what the terrible consequences can be if I do not feel like listening to correct details anymore (which was many an implementors doom). Not many players or Imortals have the power to destroy this MUD but the leader absolutely does, and it can be done easily by just ignoring everyone. So I am just saying be careful that what you say (which may be valid) doesn't become about the way you said it. That could end up leading to what you said, which is probably very important, being completely ignored ; it is very difficult for me, as a human being, not a robot, to actually listen to someone who is being kind of a dick
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Nycticora



Joined: 09 Feb 2013
Posts: 2277

PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2017 5:16 am    Post subject:

I don't understand the impact of the half elf changes. It's not clear to me why their racial learning bonus would be changed. I don't think anybody else understands what this thread is about either.

Are you saying the half-elf bonus needs to be changed because the half-elf learning bonus doesn't apply when you have all the secrets (doesn't stack)?

If so, I'd rather you didn't change half elves because I will never do any of the secrets on any character regardless of what you change. The only thing I care about is that the secrets still exist, and that when I stumble across a room containing one and I remember it that I still get the same message I got 20 years ago.

Although tbh I also don't really care if half elves lose the training bonus, it just seems like a waste of time to work on because it doesn't matter at all

I would go out of my way to do secrets on a half elf if every secret gave me +2 max hp I guess.
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Nycticora



Joined: 09 Feb 2013
Posts: 2277

PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2017 10:12 am    Post subject:

rereading that it looks kind of like I'm dumping on the thread lol

when I say I don't care, I mean it doesn't affect me as a player like at all. I think the existing half elf legacies are pretty cool and the learning bonus is nice especially for monks. But if you guys have had enough of that or you are gonna get the secrets anyway you can do whatever. I wouldn't notice spending the extra 4 hours or whatever if I did a half elf. But I'll just spend that 4 hours training on mobs without secrets, I won't spend it finding and doing secrets. Cause I'm just a knucklehead who wants to dunk people and act like a badass in north square.

Some new legacies would be cool
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