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Hall of Exalted
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How should HOE inductees go?
Leave as is. Only got a couple votes and left wondering why that char got HOE?
29%
 29%  [ 5 ]
Once a character gets an HOE nomination, they are then moved to a poll with the options of: "Yes HOE", and "No HOE". With a MINIMUM of 10 votes cast, the character must get 70% "Yes HOE" to be moved to the Halls of Exalted.
64%
 64%  [ 11 ]
Only true HOE worthy chars must have Ygin-esque graveyard where everybody and their mother logs in to vote "HELL FUCKING YES HOE!!"
5%
 5%  [ 1 ]
Total Votes : 17

Author Message
Davairus
Implementor


Joined: 16 Jan 2004
Posts: 10344
Location: 0x0000

PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2017 11:38 pm    Post subject:

Let me write a correction here for you guys because there is a lot of mistaken opinion.

Xenyar, you especially should already know better.

The Halls of The Exalted is meant to be decided by the EMISSARY faction. There is a private forum for the emissary to discuss and post in amongst themselves if they want to. Nadrin was able to move Mish because he's an emissary, it seems to me he's the only emissary whose actually doing anything. Nobody is forcing you guys to do work. But don't complain about no process. You guys are supposed to be managing the fucking process and we're picking up your slack because you aren't. I *could* make the exalted tag require either mine or 3+ of your emissary exalted tags to take affect if that helps, but youre putting a burden on me having to make that, and youre missing the point of actually having the discussion. Having people +1 hoe or -1 hoe all over someones graveyard is trashing it. Why can't you ue the private forum you have been given? Youre supposed to write a post in there so we know why you moved it. Also, the correct response to a "no vote" is to invalid the pos. That is cutting it way to close to become player bashing and leaving a sour taste on someone who justr deleted.


Last edited by Davairus on Fri Mar 31, 2017 12:19 am; edited 1 time in total
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Xenyar
Emissary


Joined: 26 May 2010
Posts: 596

PostPosted: Fri Mar 31, 2017 12:15 am    Post subject:

I am trying to manage the process by adding some common sense. A clear cut process, system, consistency, clarified, structured HOE vote.
HOE is for chars who clearly have the majority of the communities "yes to hoe".
What we have now has ABSOLUTELY NO CONSISTENCY. We have some bad ass mofos in exalted(whether that's rp or pk), mixed with a few pretty good characters. They should all, without a shadow of a doubt, be HOE worthy. Not where over half of the community is face-palming because they see another run of the mill glprett good character inducted.
On this thread and the graveyards of recently inducted, there is a huge out cry of WHAT THE FUCK is going on here.
I'm trying to remove any gray areas whether a character is HOE or not.
You can dump the bullshit of "well it's the emissary job" on us, when that has never been mentioned before ever... anywhere, on any thread.
HOE has always been voted in by the community. Let's keep that going, but with something rock-solid in place. Yes or NO. You get enough Yes, you get in. You don't, well best of luck next time. Simple as that. The poll shows the majority leans toward that. Not to mention the most level-headed/objective(IMO) IMM we have, too.
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Davairus
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Joined: 16 Jan 2004
Posts: 10344
Location: 0x0000

PostPosted: Fri Mar 31, 2017 12:20 am    Post subject:

it has been mentioned to you, it was mentioned to you as a sticky post in the original HoE, it was posted by Resatimm, and the post was there for almost ten years, and I just copied it to the emissary forum so maybe that will help jog your memory.
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Xenyar
Emissary


Joined: 26 May 2010
Posts: 596

PostPosted: Fri Mar 31, 2017 1:49 am    Post subject:

A ten year old sticky, that nobody has ever went by, from a guy who isn't even around..
As Olyn stated, and everybody knows, HOE is voted in by the players. Thats how its been the entire time since HOE was around.
How chars are inducted into the HOE needs fixed, because it's broken. Inconsistent=Broken in this case. Let's fix this mess the way most everybody see it, Dav. Simple Voting. Done. #CommonSense

If we stay with the way it is, I just want a logical explanation of exactly how we are coming to the conclusion whether a character gets inducted into the HOE or not. Because there is literally no consistent pattern, except for that there isn't a consistent pattern.
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Arunore



Joined: 05 Aug 2014
Posts: 200

PostPosted: Fri Mar 31, 2017 2:21 am    Post subject:

votes generated by the players to the imms b/c the roster is literally outting themselves by saying oh guy A rocks cos of point B. you want immersion mask it, also do away with the dumb lounge ya rotten weasels
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Nycticora



Joined: 09 Feb 2013
Posts: 2277

PostPosted: Fri Mar 31, 2017 2:23 am    Post subject:

you need to go to the emissary forum and discuss which specific characters do you not agree are elite

you do not need to implement some arbitrary system and force everybody to follow it

HoE is not a vote, it's a reflection of the belief of the pbase as a whole that this player or character is exemplary
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Davairus
Implementor


Joined: 16 Jan 2004
Posts: 10344
Location: 0x0000

PostPosted: Fri Mar 31, 2017 3:08 am    Post subject:

Xenyar you're a fool if you think having a downvote is going to work. Do you notice if you go to topmudsites, you can't vote down other people muds. You can't. You can't do that because that's stupid. Its demeaning to the people/muds being voted for its very negative and discourages participation in the entire voting process. It literally makes it something people will do less of.
I am willing to work with you guys on a system that allows for upvoting, and maybe we can discuss even a threshold of upvotes that needs to be met. But there will NOT be a downvote system. Let me repeat it. There will NOT be a system implemented that allows you to downvote people's deleted characters. It will be a complete disaster and drive away players.
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Merlandox



Joined: 31 Mar 2016
Posts: 258

PostPosted: Fri Mar 31, 2017 5:44 am    Post subject:

'you need to go to the emissary forum and discuss which specific characters do you not agree are elite

HoE is not a vote, it's a reflection of the belief of the pbase as a whole that this player or character is exemplary' -Nycticora

This sounds more like a reflection of the belief of a specfic group of people known as the emissary group. With this, what's the difference between Imm giving people vamps/alhoons, making you HoE etc etc etc vs an emissary group? Same shit, diff name actually. Prone to extreme biasness from a very specific group of people.
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Davairus
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Joined: 16 Jan 2004
Posts: 10344
Location: 0x0000

PostPosted: Fri Mar 31, 2017 6:02 am    Post subject:

Is it ideal? Nope. Is it better than giving the peanut gallery a "downvote"? Abso-fucking-lutely.

The comments already on the graveyard where everyone is throwing serious shade already proves that there needs to be a level of privacy involved in those discussions:



Look. Just look at what youre all doing. Jesus fuck. Its mob rule and laziness. This must stop.

Xenyar, please, stop making me repeat myself. We DO have an EXISTING PROCESS, and it should be ALREADY IN USE, for real it should, for the reasons I've explained also repeatedly. If you want something better implemented, cool, let me know, but youre coming over as uninformed and its weird that you dont even know that there is a process despite being an emissary, you're an emissary and you never read the sticky in the graveyard, dude. What. Resatimm literally posted its topic title in CAPS and stickied it at the top of the halls of exalted. That and the fact your part of the council is very unreasonable.
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Merlandox



Joined: 31 Mar 2016
Posts: 258

PostPosted: Fri Mar 31, 2017 6:52 am    Post subject:

Dav, the reason a debate sparked off on the graveyard was because there was a significant amount of no votes on Mishtkah, which includes two immortals that were not under the "peanut" gallery section and yet he was made exalted. That was what sparked the conversation under the graveyard.

The same conversation will be sparked even if it became private. Everyone gives a +1 +1 +1 -1 -1 -1. No conversation on the graveyard (all private discussions) and then he enters HoE. Your peanut gallery people (whom I assume to be all the non-emissaries) will be wondering why and another conversation will be sparked whether on the graveyard or in another area.

What's so bad about having a -1 HoE vote anyway? It doesn't mean your character sucks. It just means this person doesn't think it is good enough for HoE. It is still a great character, just not outstanding enough.

Anyway, IMO, if a character needs a private discussion whether he belongs to HoE or not, maybe the truth is, he doesn't belong there?
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Davairus
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Joined: 16 Jan 2004
Posts: 10344
Location: 0x0000

PostPosted: Fri Mar 31, 2017 7:33 am    Post subject:

Merlandox, a peanut gallery is comprised of nothing more than a group of people who like to flick peanuts. Sometimes this includes the emissaries and sometimes even the Immortals do that actually... you have to understand that it doesnt matter who they are, if they feel like flicking peanuts then flicking's what they're gonna do. There is an entire goon squad of yellow carded logboard shitposters.

What I am usually interested in myself with Halls of Exalted is what size of reaction we see. That doesn't really have to be good or bad, just noisy. Go to the Halls of Exalted for Mikhtah and you will see his graveyard thread has gotten more responses than any character since Ygin. There will always be an asterisk by that HoE entry because its brief, but nevertheless that is a HUGE reaction.
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Nycticora



Joined: 09 Feb 2013
Posts: 2277

PostPosted: Fri Mar 31, 2017 10:48 am    Post subject:

I posted he should be exalted and woke up and he was exalted. Nadrin made the decision because he thought Mishtkah should be exalted.

I'm not going to complain because I think he should be exalted and I think you're miscalibrated if you think otherwise.

It was a hasty decision but judging by the size of the reaction I agree with Dav and in retrospect it looks good. Are you guys butthurt that he killed you or what
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Lorne
Immortal


Joined: 20 Jan 2004
Posts: 456

PostPosted: Fri Mar 31, 2017 1:53 pm    Post subject:

I disagree that it's throwing shade. When there is a graveyard post, everyone should be allowed to have their opinion on that person. Part of that is being inducted into the HoE. Many people posted very positive comments on the character but just said it wasn't outstanding enough for HoE. So whether you call that a "downvote" or not a vote....it's still not a vote.

So whether you have a threshold for number of votes, people can still post their opinion maybe saying how this character was great, but just wasn't great enough, better luck next time. So the threshold would just be masking a downvote.

It is however important to note, many people take their characters they think is great very seriously, so the graveyard replies should be kept at a positive light with perhaps constructive criticism.

I personally didn't think Mishtkah should be exalted but that's just one person's opinion, if the group thought otherwise, that's perfectly fine. I only had a certain amount of interaction with him and saw only what I saw. Perhaps for future candidates, we can try something like:

1) Having a window of time before they can be inducted, like real Hall of Fames, except for truly overwhelming candidates can maybe get an autoinduct but other candidates perhaps need at least a week or two weeks before induction. This gives people time to give their opinions and thoughts, and gives the Imms and Emissaries some time to disgust and make a collective opinion.

2) If no "down" vote is allowed, that is fine, we can just tally a number of positive votes. Maybe say at least 5+ to 8+ votes? and yes that's a vote per account.
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Kato



Joined: 03 Nov 2013
Posts: 219

PostPosted: Fri Mar 31, 2017 2:05 pm    Post subject:

Guys I have evidence that the Russians interfered with Mistkah's HoE election
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Xenyar
Emissary


Joined: 26 May 2010
Posts: 596

PostPosted: Fri Mar 31, 2017 2:22 pm    Post subject:

Dav, you have to be out of your mind. Trying to use Mishtkahs GY as "Biggest since Ygins"? What? The ONLY reason there is that much response on this slightly above average char, is because its a fucking out cry from everybody say NO NO NO NO NO NO NO No. And a couple yeses. Thats not a fucking HOE char. Period. All the true HOES have none, or just one or two NO's. ALL OF THEM. Mishtkah, Voglin, and so on....don't even have half the communities support. Thats not HOE, at all.
So you are worried about a No vote as throwing shade? Wow. OH gee I'd hate to hurt somebodies feelings because I didn't vote for them. We better make digital tissue box, and a safe room where we can go and express our emotions and have special little immortals there to support us and pat us on the back. And a therapist to help us cope with the just terrible, awful, vile, filthy sound of a NO VOTE. What are we, fucking democrats?
Get the Fuck out of here.
Grow a set.
Have a vote.
Your opinion IS the huge minority.
Most everybody here thinks you are Wrong on this matter. And you are.
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Ergorion



Joined: 16 Mar 2007
Posts: 2156

PostPosted: Fri Mar 31, 2017 2:24 pm    Post subject:

Kato, I think you mean either Estonia or Singapore.

Edit-- Xenyar you're throwing mad shade here. I agree with dav. I think other people do too. Why are you so heated on this? Are you worried some n00b is gonna to get HoE and then roll everyone with the completely overpowered alhoon or vampire options?
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Olyn
Immortal


Joined: 23 Jul 2008
Posts: 3244
Location: Pennsylvania

PostPosted: Fri Mar 31, 2017 2:30 pm    Post subject:

I would like to see some kind of consensus rather than one emissary making the call. I don't have an opinion either way as to whether it should be all players or emissaries arriving at the decision.

I will say that I've always thought the very existence of emissaries creates a haves vs have-nots atmosphere where some players could understandably feel disenfranchised. If you go back and read forum posts from 10-15 years ago, you will probably find that the tone was very much us vs them (players vs imms). We still have our share of venting, whining, and general douchebaggery, but I think it's fair to say that players generally believe imms do what we do to make their experience better. After all, to varying degrees, our imms are also players. I have no problem deferring to the player-base in its entirety for things like HoE and other recognitions.

On the flip side of that, every player is capable of being an emissary. We probably have some that are overdue. A few more that would be if it wasn't for a bit too much forum negativity or flame bait posts.
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Kato



Joined: 03 Nov 2013
Posts: 219

PostPosted: Fri Mar 31, 2017 3:50 pm    Post subject:

I agree with Dava, negative feedback doesn't really belong in the graveyard. A poll makes it even worse - that encourages / enables exclusionary gatekeeping like Xenyar is doing right now. It should be a space that's safe from that bullshit.

If you feel like your achievements are cheapened by someone getting into HoE because they impacted others' game experience of people without having a 100/1 record, then please stop obsessing over the comparative size of your e-peen for a few minutes and see if it still matters. I'm not concerned about gay marriage undermining straight marriage, and I'm likewise not concerned about controversial players pike bladefurry getting into HoE. On the contrary, that would be awesome and I hope I see it.

Abortion.
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Merlandox



Joined: 31 Mar 2016
Posts: 258

PostPosted: Fri Mar 31, 2017 3:51 pm    Post subject:

'Kato, I think you mean either Estonia or Singapore' -ergorian

Huh? What does this even mean Ergorian? Lol? I'm as butthurt as a no vote now!
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Ergorion



Joined: 16 Mar 2007
Posts: 2156

PostPosted: Fri Mar 31, 2017 5:16 pm    Post subject:

Kato said there was Russian tampering with the HoE elections. I'm saying given track record of multi it was more likely Estonian or Singaporean in nature.
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