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[2018 Q1] dark knights in general
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tayyah



Joined: 20 May 2011
Posts: 597

PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2018 4:50 pm    Post subject: [2018 Q1] dark knights in general

I used to be an avid dk player. they have always been one of my favorite classes... since they lost dirt kick all those years ago it's been a downward spiral... I really like the abysmal bulwark revamp and think it adds and unique aspect to the class but I feel that the specs damaged it. having rolled a few chaotic and a lawful I would say that I have no interest in trying another in their current form (I instantl6 stopped playing my lawful when I realised that they don't have unholy strength...)
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Nycticora



Joined: 09 Feb 2013
Posts: 2277

PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2018 6:12 pm    Post subject:

I need more to work on than one skill, dirt kick. Can you put a LOT more thought into this and give me some actionable feedback
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tayyah



Joined: 20 May 2011
Posts: 597

PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2018 6:55 pm    Post subject:

lol this is a discussion page ranix. not come up with solutions, I realise this was your baby and you are are little defensive but you guys ruined dks with specs. I think that invokers had the best outline for this. there is no difference in skills between a fire invoker or a ice invoker aside for some little bits of extra flair but with dk you guys made them almost completely different classes between the specs. if you are expecting me to come up with a problem solution and implementation, either I am misunderstanding this thread or you are. I was under the impression that we put something we dislike about a change that was made and we discuss. I'm waiting for other people to discuss and get some feedback. but thank you for making me feel dumb this is really going to make me want to post more shit in this thread
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Nycticora



Joined: 09 Feb 2013
Posts: 2277

PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2018 7:15 pm    Post subject:

thanks for putting all that extra thought into the problem it's really helpful

(it was not helpful and you didn't put any thought into it, you just insulted me and accused me of being defensive)


are you ONLY asking for dirt kick to be returned to DKs? because that's all you've given me to work on
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tayyah



Joined: 20 May 2011
Posts: 597

PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2018 7:30 pm    Post subject:

edited

Last edited by tayyah on Mon Jan 15, 2018 7:44 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Ergorion



Joined: 16 Mar 2007
Posts: 2156

PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2018 7:44 pm    Post subject:

You all better watch out. My lawful dk is almost level 8. I'm coming for you.
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Olyn
Immortal


Joined: 23 Jul 2008
Posts: 3244
Location: Pennsylvania

PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2018 8:11 pm    Post subject:

Isn't chaotic dk spec exactly the same as pre-spec dk and neutral can pick the either spec?
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Nycticora



Joined: 09 Feb 2013
Posts: 2277

PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2018 8:29 pm    Post subject:

the chaotic spec is exactly the same as what we can refer to as the "post-burzuk dk un-nerf". I think Burz had taken away blindness leaving them only with dirt kick and I reversed that decision.

The Burzuk dk nerfs came about because DKs could do basically everything other classes could and then some. DK was basically skills looted from every other class and put into a monster class that was only balanced when at least 50 other players wanted it dead. These nerfs were (unfortunately) well-intentioned and brought the DK class down to a power level the playerbase can handle.

Prior to these nerfs DKs had both dirt and blind as well as dodge and cure light etc. The chaotic DK is my attempt to return as many mechanics to DKs that were removed as possible while keeping the class balanced.

The lawful DK is the chaotic DK minus Unholy Strength, plus Spellstrike and Buckler. They also ride horses slightly better.
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tayyah



Joined: 20 May 2011
Posts: 597

PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2018 8:59 pm    Post subject:

they also lost bash
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Nycticora



Joined: 09 Feb 2013
Posts: 2277

PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2018 9:02 pm    Post subject:

oh yeah, I totally forgot about that because I never use bash on a DK (which is why I took it out)

you know they can overpower their maledictions, as per "overpower" that warriors have, except they don't need to master the spells right? that's what spellstrike does
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BlackWidow



Joined: 24 Apr 2014
Posts: 470
Location: Yes

PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2018 10:49 pm    Post subject:

I only played one dark-knight of any noteworthiness whatsoever, but basically I saw them as an offensive hybrid, in this case warrior/mage. I have not played them for years, but my general impression was a dark-knight with a solid two-handed weapon was generally in good shape, and they could tank mobs with a mace and shield. There have been some changes since when I played...

I do recall losing dirt kick and getting blindness instead. I didn't see it as a particularly big deal.

In general though, I saw the dark-knight as being able to handle virtually any other class without problems.
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Merlandox



Joined: 31 Mar 2016
Posts: 258

PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 5:25 am    Post subject:

I have one problem with DKs. It is the fact that lemons and all those stupid buyable fruits can cure maladictions. It is retarded. I tried lemons. The succees rate to cure a level 50 plague is so high it is lame. I tried 10 plagues, it took on average 5 lemons to cure. A giant can hold a tonne of them. Who needs maladictive saves....
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Davairus
Implementor


Joined: 16 Jan 2004
Posts: 10344
Location: 0x0000

PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 8:28 am    Post subject:

Dark-knight was one of the last mortals, I think actually THE last mortal I actively pk'ed with. They have only been buffed since then.

I chose dark-knight because I saw the potential to deal more damage than any other possible class, even an illusionist. The defense was low, both on the pure health/dodge missing etc side and there's no weapon wards or anything like that. I thought sure whatever, I'll go full glass cannon. It did not disappoint me. You guys who feel dk's maybe need a little buff have probably not had the benefit of seeing what an unholy strength frenzied DK can do when you have the best equipment in the game, which would be including the shit from Order and also the best weapons in the game, and throw cabal skills in the mix to ramp that up even more, and spam fireballs on top? Fucking HAH. I remember I literally mowed through the Knights elite and always better geared warriors. It was a total one-sided beating with me swinging the hammer. And I used vamp touch and fireballs as my bread and butter, btw. It felt very nice. Very easy. I always felt very comfortable and in control as I did it. I don't remember using bash too often. I do remember trying to fight Phostan's paladin, Luminetar I believe? And I could do absolutely diddly to his paladin, and that very much felt like the way things should be. Paladins were a pain in my ass. All in all, it was a very fulfilling experience.

I felt since I played that DK that there was really no place else to go on offense. Why would you buff that? To me that seems crazy. The defenses maybe lacked. Losing dodge was a significant hit, and even more so was having to deal with flee lags from dirt kicks on top of that. That was enough to make me roll drow and not even want to try a human dk. But lets be honest.. all of the offense is intact. Dirt kick? Why would you bother with that instead of casting a fireball? I really like the direction Burzuk chose with unholy armor and I added jotuns to synergize with more hp to add to that armor. Hp and Armor go together really nicely, and bulwark adds an extra dimension to that with the HP shield, something that to me is incredibly more thoughtful than just having cure light ever was. I would not need to worry about cure light and instead rely on bulwark to cast more fireballs.

They are a well put-together class now, maybe not in the first age by any means but 2018 the dark-knight I'm sure kicks ass. It sure kicked ass when I was playing it in shark-infested waters. My PK range was a gallery of assassins at any given time honestly. If I'm not mistaken the issue of GETTING DIRT KICKED, which was the actual problem, has long been addressed. So you shouldn't have much problem with playing DK at 50 once you get the hang of it. You probably would struggle if you didn't have sound decision making because mistakes are very punishing with that sort of defense, and being impulsive instead of calculating is especially destructive. I would even go so far as to say don't expect to do that great on a DK if its your first time playing one. There is an element of picking your battles with that class, striking at the right time, but seriously, when things are in your favor you are a killing machine spitting fireballs, it feels amazingly powerful. I kinda feel like rolling one up again actually.
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Nycticora



Joined: 09 Feb 2013
Posts: 2277

PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 7:55 pm    Post subject:

I'll take a look at those fruits, I didn't know about that. Should be fine if the decay timer is correct or if eating pills causes lag or anything if someone is stocking up on fruit right before fighting a dk. You can watch them go to the store or follow them or ambush them. If people are walking around with tons of fruit in a sack though that might not be cool
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Mikoos



Joined: 03 Nov 2012
Posts: 474

PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2018 9:26 pm    Post subject:

DKs are a beautiful class.
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ottif



Joined: 08 Jan 2015
Posts: 310

PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2018 4:44 pm    Post subject:

i didn't get the removal of unholy strength. that seemed really random. dark knights for decades have been the unholy strength class. that is the whole storyline and balance behind the class I thought. and sicne we're talking about lawful dks can we just undo all the new justice stuff. im glad the cabal was moved back to seringale I think? that's a start, now just realize it was all a bad idea and revert back to old justices please!
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Olyn
Immortal


Joined: 23 Jul 2008
Posts: 3244
Location: Pennsylvania

PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 12:05 am    Post subject:

Unholy strength still feels newish to me, but I played dk more before they had it.

What new justice stuff don't you like? What were "old justices"?
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Rothak



Joined: 03 Oct 2011
Posts: 256
Location: Japan

PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 2:58 am    Post subject:

Will there be a change to implement additional mana gain as a DKN that does not have unholy strength? They seem a bit lacking in that department.
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Ergorion



Joined: 16 Mar 2007
Posts: 2156

PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 1:35 pm    Post subject:

Trance ftw.
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beia



Joined: 18 Mar 2006
Posts: 920
Location: Texas

PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 3:03 pm    Post subject:

Let’s not do that please. They are hybrids not dedicated casters. Chaotic drow DK hitting mangles through sanc with an infinite mana pool sounds dumb as fuck.
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