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[2018 Q3] Levelling : Too easy
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phredjoenz



Joined: 18 Mar 2018
Posts: 41
Location: Florida

PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2018 5:07 am    Post subject: [2018 Q3] Levelling : Too easy

So my perspective, as someone who had been gone from the game for a LONG time, is that it is way too easy to power rank a char now. Of course, you can also just be smart and use "NoExp" if you want to get your skills up a bit more before getting to the higher levels where you are going to be more vulnerable to potential PK'ers.
But seriously, when I didn't know how easy ranking during a surge even with only a group of 2 was going to be, and I went from basically lv 9 to 26 in an hour and a half, without trying, I was like, what the wholly hell is going on here?
Hardcore quick changes are never the answer, unless there's a ridiculous balance of power issue, or serious bugs or loopholes that have to be addressed. That said, I'd certainly be in favor of reducing the amount of bonus for the Guildpoint awards, and surges, in order to encourage more group play, and Rp development between char's.
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Arunore



Joined: 05 Aug 2014
Posts: 200

PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2018 7:37 pm    Post subject:

Right, Phred?? Currently a group of 3 can each buy a pet, merc, equip the merc with shield, helm, torso, weapon, and dude buddy's lvl 50 will log on and eat cakes. It (mundo's cakes/pots) was an attempt to cater towards the smaller playerbase but it also diminished the amount of effort put into a single character.
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Faelon
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Joined: 23 Feb 2006
Posts: 938
Location: Your moms house.

PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2018 9:38 pm    Post subject:

I disagree with the idea of reducing guild rewards/surge. I appreciate the quickness of getting to fifty, because it isn't any different then it used to be. Playerbase used to be higher, easier to find groups. Now, it's far more difficult to find groups and surges/rewards offset that difficulty.

Besides, if you don't like them, you can simply not use them and enjoy the long slog to 50 that way.
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Davairus
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Joined: 16 Jan 2004
Posts: 10344
Location: 0x0000

PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2018 12:35 am    Post subject:

problem:
1) it is way too easy to power rank a char now, in a group of 2, and in a surge.
2) a group of 3 can each buy a pet, merc, equip the merc with shield, helm, torso, weapon, and dude buddy's lvl 50 will log on and eat cakes. = reduced effort

solution:
2) reducing the amount of bonus for the Guildpoint awards, and surges, in order to encourage more group play, and Rp development between char's.

counter-point
1) Playerbase used to be higher, easier to find groups. Now, it's far more difficult to find groups and surges/rewards offset that difficulty. and, if you don't like them, you can simply not use them


Are you guys trying to say we've over-solved this problem? I don't think surge and guild rewards stack and I thought the overlord bonus helped with training rate
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ottif



Joined: 08 Jan 2015
Posts: 310

PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2018 12:49 am    Post subject:

it wasn't a hardcore quick change it was several less hardcore changes over time that gradually brought us to this point
getting a group of 3 people can be really painful to do, so if you find one i think it should be a big boost.
making things harder at this point would only turn people away. it is the opposite direction that gaming is going now, less time, less investment more reward.
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Vertas



Joined: 17 Jan 2004
Posts: 1168
Location: Ewa Beach, HI

PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2018 12:52 am    Post subject:

I think surges are a great idea. They are incentives for people to log on at the same time. This is still just as much of a player base problem as it is we don’t care about our characters because it is too easy to roll a new one and be back where you were the moment you mess something up. I mean let’s face it, a lot of games actually encourage that kind of play. I started a new play through of Allen Wake on nightmare mode the other day. I had to keep restarting a chapter because I knew I was using up too much batteries and bullets and was going to have a harder time later. There is a definite “right” way to play games now compared to ten-fifteen years ago. The agonizing meticulous make sure you’re doing everything right or start over again mentality. I’m guilty of this too.

Maybe I’m making assumptions. It would probably be a good idea to get some more data first. Maybe require us to input a reason upon delete so that we can accurately track why people aren’t willing to stay in it for the long haul?
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Davairus
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Joined: 16 Jan 2004
Posts: 10344
Location: 0x0000

PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2018 1:05 am    Post subject:

My experience has been entirely solo'ing and I basically stall in the mid 30's and quit there. I would probably make it to 50 if I could solo to 50. I had been thinking that was the way we were going to go.

Would you guys prefer a "levelling class" type of mobs and cause other mobs to split exp instead of increase it? its one way to force groups to tackle harder content
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Olyn
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Joined: 23 Jul 2008
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Location: Pennsylvania

PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2018 1:08 am    Post subject:

I'm pretty happy with how things are with leveling. People nerdraged their characters the same back in the day when it was harder and took more time to level. Forcing players to invest more time in ranking will not fix the problem that you think it will. It will just mean they spend more time grinding than doing things that most players consider to be more fun.
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Kedaleam
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Joined: 25 Mar 2006
Posts: 989
Location: Michigan

PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2018 1:18 am    Post subject:

I think the last time I tried to level, I hit around level 38 and couldn't find groups anymore and couldn't solo stuff efficiently. So personally I think things are fine how they are. If i cared enough maybe I would've bugged some 50's to help, which is nice to have as an option. Sure it's a breeze to level 30, but things slow down there. Unless you just get lucky with being grouped with that nice ooc group that powers you the whole way.
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Davairus
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Joined: 16 Jan 2004
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Location: 0x0000

PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2018 1:49 am    Post subject:

Everyones entitled to an opinion on this btw. I haven't made any plans to change levelling any more but I think surge has been strangling the game slowly and turning it into church sundays, and we do plenty double exp holidays now
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Vertas



Joined: 17 Jan 2004
Posts: 1168
Location: Ewa Beach, HI

PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2018 3:20 am    Post subject:

If all the Imms rolled mortals that would double the playerbase... Still waiting for that Imm showdown by the way.
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Kedaleam
Immortal


Joined: 25 Mar 2006
Posts: 989
Location: Michigan

PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2018 3:38 am    Post subject:

Cant speak for everyone else, but I roll morts a lot. I just get sick of them by the 30's. Leveling issues or not. Just trying to find something that fits me again. I'm the dude that you probably level with to that point, but then just never see again. That's me.
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phredjoenz



Joined: 18 Mar 2018
Posts: 41
Location: Florida

PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2018 4:13 am    Post subject:

Ottif, Apologies, but I think you misunderstood my statement.
What I meant was that there's no reason to make significant changes at this point to address the issue. I certainly was not trying to imply that there had been some huge knee jerk change that made things significantly different overnight, so I hope it wasn't interpereted that way by everyone.
Basically, my suggestion at this point was to consider making minor modifications to reduce the magnitude of bonus received during surges, or with the Guildpoint awards.
I think both things are great ideas, and i'd hate to see either of them go away. I think that it's a big encouragement to players to get on during those times and find a group. Overall a strong idea.
As much as anything, I was trying to make sure that someone made the point that if someone has a serious issue with "being power ranked" they always have the option of stopping it. Hell if someone wanted to, they could stay in the law to mid 30's indefinitely until their character was practiced and outfitted the way they wanted, and then rank again when they saw fit.
There are various strategies for character building, and even different reasons for playing to begin with. It's hard to cater to everyone's wants, but overall I think the set-up is still pretty solid.
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phredjoenz



Joined: 18 Mar 2018
Posts: 41
Location: Florida

PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2018 4:21 am    Post subject:

The thing I've noticed since I returned was, I'll group with someone one day, then come back and a few days later they're already a lvl 50 and there's not much reason for them to associate with the lower level char any longer.
I guess I'm just a bit more into the "earn your stripes, and get a reputation from being around" mentality that was the old school way. I would just like to see it be a little more difficult for someone to plow their way to lvl 50 in just a few days.
No one has to agree with me, and I'm sure a lot of people simply don't, and that's perfectly fine. We're all entitled to an opinion, and if mine would be detrimental to maintaining or building the player base, than please don't act on it. Id love to see the days of 15-25 characters at a time logged in, and people being afraid to venture out for fear of "character X" who is always a threat if you aren't ready to fight and run for your life. I've never been a big one when it comes to PK'ing, but for sure, those were the days.
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Ceridwel
Immortal


Joined: 01 Feb 2008
Posts: 3385
Location: Seattle

PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2018 4:34 am    Post subject:

I echo Olyn's statement - I play a bunch of morts right now too and find levelling right in the right spot. Not too fast, not too slow.

But that's just me.
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Nycticora



Joined: 09 Feb 2013
Posts: 2277

PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2018 5:54 am    Post subject:

if you power you get wiped because your skills are trash anyway
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Arunore



Joined: 05 Aug 2014
Posts: 200

PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2018 4:18 pm    Post subject:

I feel surges and guild rewards are pretty sturdy, i think topics discussing how to acquire these in a different way could be interesting but isn't necessary considering the consensus.
Like cabal item captures, maybe if those effected the lands when captured or something.
Capture the Legion item causes chaos and surges are created in evil hunting places or maybe in already existing surge time slots.

My issue has always been the cakes though, youre pairing one or more 50's fully geared out with their mastered skills/spells and just blasting these guys to 50. I get so many ppl with fresh toons asking me to rank them up if im on a lvl 50. But alot of you like that, the easy route, and maybe im biased because ive been playing for a long time, so i dont want to ruin anything for anyone else. Thats why im trying to find a middle ground, maybe with and how these thongs are acquired
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Ergorion



Joined: 16 Mar 2007
Posts: 2156

PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2018 5:57 pm    Post subject:

The idea of the surge was to try to incentivize a couple times per week where the playerbase would see a similar surge in active characters? That's a question.

And if it now means some players will only play during those times because their time is limited and they get more bang for their buck so to speak, would having no surges spread out the playing time of those players more evenly?

With guild rewards and double xp holidays and all that jazz, would it be worth experimenting with the surge?

Ideas:
- Trying a month with no surge at all
- Trying a month with no surge, but you can get 2x guild favor on surge days (meaning, if you log on with no guild points on a surge day, you can end the day with 2 guild points if you're active for 30 mins outside surge time and 30 mins in surge time)
- Seeing what affect keeping the same number of surge hours but having them randomized throughout the week would have
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Arunore



Joined: 05 Aug 2014
Posts: 200

PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2018 7:02 pm    Post subject:

Haha things not thongs.... ugh.
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Davairus
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Joined: 16 Jan 2004
Posts: 10344
Location: 0x0000

PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2018 7:36 pm    Post subject:

I think this is bigger than just surges. There's monster potions to just pound through content and eliminate the dead time. If we are talking about having levelling as a roleplaying expeirence, we probably want to get some dead time back. Another thing is this lack of dead time is going to be forcing people to AFK while being pulled around mansion or whatever, instead of while the group stops to nap. There are classes that are not well suited to non-stop grinding. Monster healing potion costs may be the real problem here. Just a thought
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