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The event "The Assault on Taekir" is beginning in 1 day, 12 hours.

Word of recall lag
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Ergorion



Joined: 16 Mar 2007
Posts: 2156

PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2018 6:50 pm    Post subject: Word of recall lag

Word of recall is a ridiculously powerful running tool. The half movement penalty only comes into play very rarely at pinnacle and is more of a kick in the nuts at lower ranks as a properly placed recall will force your opponent to blow half their moves just to get back to your hometown.

My suggestion is to drastically increase the lag when you recall with adrenaline. Something along the lines of a minimum 10 rounds or maybe a full tick or two that can be snapped out of if someone initiates combat with you.

This way, word of recall can still be your escape hatch but it's not necessarily a freebie but not as risky as a teleport.
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tayyah



Joined: 20 May 2011
Posts: 597

PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2018 10:42 pm    Post subject:

Yeah and that 100% leaves you susceptible to a temple camp. sure even if you snap out from combat that gives a person time to even sanctuary and prepare than attack. curse. overweight and all the other anti recall measures is plenty
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Dogran
Immortal


Joined: 13 Jun 2009
Posts: 1794

PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2018 10:47 pm    Post subject:

I do think this mechanic could be looked at but a huge lag added would be a terrible idea. Should instead limit how often it can happen. Put a delay on the spell, have it work for potions and the casting. Ie you recall, and now you cant recall again for 48 hours or something the like.
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Ergorion



Joined: 16 Mar 2007
Posts: 2156

PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2018 11:05 pm    Post subject:

Word of recall should no longer be a get out of jail free ticket.
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Nycticora



Joined: 09 Feb 2013
Posts: 2277

PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 12:23 am    Post subject:

the pillars of light is already a huge nerf to word of recall, it's not getting nerfed again. Players who prioritize survivability should be able to survive unless you catch them unprepared or in a trap, or hunt them down in their hiding places.
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Ergorion



Joined: 16 Mar 2007
Posts: 2156

PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 1:02 am    Post subject:

If you want to prioritize survivability, then you should roll a healer, or an illu. I don't think every class should be able to have an easy button escape.
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twerpalina

BANNED

Joined: 16 Mar 2018
Posts: 307
Location: Utrecht, Netherlands

PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 2:21 am    Post subject:

Without word it will be very hard to reset and fight again.

Will cause way too many stupid rng deaths and anger imo.

Right now the battles are dragged out because either side can recall and basically reset the fight and whoever fucks up first dies.

It makes it way more intense and also way more challenging to come up with ideas to outplay/outsmart your enemy.

Without word you could die to a just random lucky murder initiate or some epic roll from wild weapon with special proc or any other rng wizkill and that will just make everything so much more frustrating.

Wimpy players should be harder to kill, will make it much more rewarding in the end.

Also saying that only healers/illus should have it or be hard to kill will imbalance both classes pretty much automatically to the point of being #1 op hoarders as if they weren't already.

Just my 2c
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Ergorion



Joined: 16 Mar 2007
Posts: 2156

PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 3:39 am    Post subject:

Deaths should certainly come from a lucky murder initiate or wild weapon diesel blow. Deaths should happen early and often. People nerd rage because they aren't used to it. Make it commonplace and maybe we'll see some condeaths again and people not being whiny little bitches when their full suits of titanium tenor get looted after a pip or kato type cheeses them.
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Nycticora



Joined: 09 Feb 2013
Posts: 2277

PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 3:45 am    Post subject:

word of recall consumes half your mv when you use it, even from a potion - it's most definitely not free
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Vertas



Joined: 17 Jan 2004
Posts: 1168
Location: Ewa Beach, HI

PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 5:11 am    Post subject:

Also you can be killed if you recall close to death. You smack into a wall and it kills you, not sure if that’s only when flying or not.
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Davairus
Implementor


Joined: 16 Jan 2004
Posts: 10344
Location: 0x0000

PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 6:57 am    Post subject:

This is probably more to do with how fast high level characters regenerate movement than a word of recal issue
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BlackWidow



Joined: 24 Apr 2014
Posts: 470
Location: Yes

PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 12:38 pm    Post subject:

Word of recall is an excellent panic button. There are three types of characters who use it especially well: any avians, and the healer and illusionist classes. Bards and druids get the ability to recall to points outside of their hometown.

With that said, there are limitations on its use. If you are overburdened, you cannot recall. Curses from any source also prevent recall, though healers have the advantage of a convenient remove curse spell (if they can get it out and if it works).

Still, I think Ergorion has a point.
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tayyah



Joined: 20 May 2011
Posts: 597

PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 2:23 pm    Post subject:

word of recall only has a very reduced effect on prepared characters. if you have the potions, pills, scrolls to mitigate it's effect. It's that preparation that makes it feel like the spell is overpowered. but if you are prepared, it will always feel like that. There is only 4 that feel zero effects from it. 2 races and 2 classes. Everything else can just be prepared for. But that is literally the name of the game. the Victor generally is the more prepared combatant. Berserker are really the only class that gets a bum wrap for recall.

PS I don't think you understand what will happen if you start killing everyone and full looting all the time. because let's face it. we all full loot if the person is anyway shape a threat. I gaurantee this will push a few players away more than encourage them.to stick around and con death.
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twerpalina

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Joined: 16 Mar 2018
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Location: Utrecht, Netherlands

PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 2:29 pm    Post subject:

I played Veromos as berserk as one could play a duergar shaman. Never did I rely on word of recall, it was more of a last resort spell when things went REALLY wrong.

If there would not been word of recall, I'd been a whole lot more wimpy therefore denying people of chances to actually kill me because I'd not be going around fighting 1v5 without a way out - that would just been stupid.
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Stiehl26



Joined: 16 Jan 2004
Posts: 691

PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 5:12 pm    Post subject:

Idea: Have recall with adrenaline reduce move regen. This would still give benefit to those classes/races that have the ability to get moves without completely nerfing word.
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BlackWidow



Joined: 24 Apr 2014
Posts: 470
Location: Yes

PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 5:27 pm    Post subject:

Anything which affects movement related to recall would likely penalize warriors and berserkers disproportionately. Why? Because berserk takes out half your movement, and it can also be used for some light healing. (Note: rangers have pathfinding, paladins have errantry, dark-knights have their stallions, and rogue classes generally have no problems hiding; all the others have a form of recall besides monks. Monks don't have berserk.).

Perhaps we could add a caltraps affect similar to what happens to a dark-knight whose mount dies underneath them?
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tayyah



Joined: 20 May 2011
Posts: 597

PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 5:31 pm    Post subject:

rogues and monks have scrolls. if you get caught without fly scrolls while you are running for your life. that's on you
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Davairus
Implementor


Joined: 16 Jan 2004
Posts: 10344
Location: 0x0000

PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 6:02 pm    Post subject:

Well look at what happens if we removed word of recall:

Without word of recall, the game is immediately a high stakes PK'ing game. High stakes as in, if you lose, you're probably going to lose all your shit. The further you are from where you died, the more likely that you lose all your shit. So on just the strength of that alone, you can hopefully see people would feel like "wow, this game is too hardcore for me. I'm not interested" and the lower their current skill level at it, the more inclined they are to feel that way.

I have a great deal of respect for the people who play Warlords for this reason.
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Nycticora



Joined: 09 Feb 2013
Posts: 2277

PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 6:06 pm    Post subject:

I'll audit this smacking into a wall thing and make sure it's not super unfair Vertas
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Ergorion



Joined: 16 Mar 2007
Posts: 2156

PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 6:43 pm    Post subject:

The wall smack I think was only while blinded and it was an injures or grazes at most.

Blackwidow, warriors got a skill called athleticism which makes their movement regen insane. So berserkers would be the only ones royally fucked, but hey, they can quaff potions while raged now so that's new.

I just think we need to ramp up the pk'ign and bodycounts.
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