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[2019 Q1] Animate corpse

 
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Davairus
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Joined: 16 Jan 2004
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2019 8:32 am    Post subject: [2019 Q1] Animate corpse

I've been looking at the patch threads and thinking about older posts, and I think there is some recurring request for zombies to be saved over reboots, which is gaining a bit more weight now that illusionists can memorize a dupe.

I don't agree that zombies would save over reboots, because part of the tension of necromancer combat is trying to get to them before they get full zombies. I think its crucial that raises are attempted. At the same time though it does seem like there is something missing here.

What I propose is we utilize our existing graveyards. There are graveyards literally all over the game, masses of demon soldiers, elf warriors, etc. All of these are rooms a necro could believeably just go there and immediately raise a zombie from. I would think that is a no-brainer. You just run to your favorite graveyard, cast animate, and some piece of crap zombie of the area's level will just burst out of the earth beneath you. Maybe with a chance of not being crap, also.
Of course if you know where the graveyards are, you know where to go looking for the necro.
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Olyn
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2019 2:23 pm    Post subject:

We also have skeletons for this. I think allowing the necromancer to quickly make his skeletons, or a random assortment of skeletons and zombies, in a graveyard could become part of a "necro prep" progression.

I'm thinking something like this:

After a log-in or a death/charmie wipe, the necro can quickly make his golems from anywhere. He can then visit a graveyard to create skeletons/zombies. Maybe a lvl 50 necro can get all 3 (obviously not max level charmies) when there's no adrenaline (or he's a ghost) or be subject to the existing cooldown for making one at a time if he has adrenaline. The current way to raise a skeleton from a specific corpse would remain unchanged.

For his "real" zombies, the last patch introduced the concept of decorating corpses with gold to increase the chance to animate as a zombie and the cooldown for strength damned was reduced (depending on how many strength damned zombies the necro already has). I deliberately made the amount of gold for corpse decoration high, because I know where I'd like to go with this. In an upcoming patch, I would like to add special locations where the necromancer can decorate his corpses for a reduced cost. These would be locations like a Sepulcher in the necromancer's lair and/or special worktables like the exam table in the Necromancer's guildhall. Necros would also receive a skill allowing them to preserve corpses, and likely individual body parts, so they don't rot before they're transported to the appropriate location.

It would be badass for necros to be able to build a charmie by collecting an assortment of body parts and preserving them until he throws them together for use.

I'm open to other ideas as well.
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Bladefury



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PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2019 4:03 pm    Post subject:

oooh being able to collect body parts for a zombie sounds freaking awesome. some zombies use bash, trip etc it would be cool if we could get a zombie that did breathe I actually like to raise the blue dragon or schwartzer who both have breathes.
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Davairus
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2019 6:34 pm    Post subject:

To clarify, I'm suggesting if you're standing in a graveyard you don't need a corpse, but you can only get a zombie of whatever is buried there (e.g. someones cat)
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Ergorion



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PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2019 7:40 pm    Post subject:

An idea I had to deal with the nut punch of logging out is this: upon log-out, the flesh of a necromancer's existing zombies decays and they are left with skeletons of the same level.

This would reduce the utility of raise skeleton a little bit, but it would still have relevance if someone kills all a necro's zombies or if the necro dies and needs to regain an army.
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Eyvon
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 1:16 am    Post subject:

I think the main issue for me when playing a necromancer is really more of the time commitment. The prep time for a necro to reach full strength can sometimes really be daunting. So these days before i log on my necro, the question i really ask myself is, am i down for 3 hours at least, if not i'll probably go to some other class to play. However if this is the idea that the devs have for the class then i think i probably can live with it.

As for animate corpse itself, body parts to build a super zombie will be really awesome imo. For the problem of the reboots and logging out, perhaps a way to deal with it will be to put a short clock on the zombies before they lose their source of energy and die out. For eg, if i have to take a 10 min break to take a dumb mayb i can entomb them somewhere which put them say on a 24 tick count down before they disappear. Because speaking from experience, getting caught in a reboot after spending 45 mins to get all 3 of my zombies is just an "ok i think thats it for me today" moment. Sweat
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Eyvon
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 1:20 am    Post subject:

Also, (sorry for the spam) having a way to tell if the zombie will actually be worth raising will be nice, mayb like a detect spell that gives u a rough gauge on the zombie's health/dmg/skills etc before you raise it. Just the other day i raised rubal while ranking in mudfall and realized that my dalmatian hits harder than him and hes supposed to be 54. so... Laughing
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Davairus
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 7:25 am    Post subject:

Actually I think we could just restrict strength damned to one zombie and get that over with. Trying to strength damned 3 zombies is a horrible time sink for a marginal damage increase. Its really harsh. We might as well just buff flesh golem damage and have that require flesh parts to make stronger. Maybe we could have mobs you raise that comes already strength damned (like Rin the shopkeeper and other stuff with actual names). If we do that, we're downgrading zombies a little bit, and opening up opportunity to adjust elsewhere.
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kento



Joined: 03 Nov 2004
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2019 2:22 pm    Post subject:

The issue is 100% the time debt that necromancers cost. I really want to be able to play my favorite class, but will literally almost never be able to play like I used to be able to for hours at a time. And if you compare them to illusionists, it is silly. I am fine with the strongest zombies taking a long time to get, but once I get them, I should be able to keep them in some way. Especially since you often fail to raise them 10x.

I really like Ergorian's idea of if you log out with a full army of zombies, you log back in with skeletons of the same rank. It's a good starting place. I love the idea of getting the pieces to make a zombie, with a 100% success rate if you build them that way? That way at least I know that the hour I spend killing the things I need isn't going to just fail to raise and I am going to be screwed out of the time.
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Ergorion



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PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2019 2:56 pm    Post subject:

Kento, one thing I found out is that apparently your animate corpse proficiency has a bearing on the success of raising zombies. So if you keep it at 75%, you're going to get frustrated real fast.

What's more frustrating is that even with animate corpse somewhere in the mid-90s on my last squid necro I was failing animate corpse too often for the gut check to say training it up really did much.
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Bladefury



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PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2019 2:59 pm    Post subject:

noooo i do not like the idea of only one strength damned zombie....
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Davairus
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2019 7:07 pm    Post subject:

It doesnt matter to me if you like or dont like it, but if you have any actual useful input, please post it. Seems to me like fundamentally the wrong approach was taken if you want all your shit right away. We will not be lowering the strength damned cooldown or buffing animate corpse chance.
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ottif



Joined: 08 Jan 2015
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2019 4:17 pm    Post subject:

I had a necro and, after some practice, could easily get max zombies in an hour. This is actually a pretty long time, but that is the whole point I thought... You can get skeletons and some rubbish zombies real quick if speed is what you're looking for. Haven't played in a couple years but isn't that the whole point of necros?? Time sink in exchange for incredible power? Then again we lost the whole brains over brawn thing a while ago, so this sort of change actually seems perfectly in line for the direction of the game.
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Davairus
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2019 6:22 pm    Post subject:

ottif you sound really high
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