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Gambling in AR (not just random items)

 
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BlackWidow



Joined: 24 Apr 2014
Posts: 470
Location: Yes

PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2019 2:01 pm    Post subject: Gambling in AR (not just random items)

So, I was just reading a random article from my Mozilla Pocket this morning about loot boxes (which seem to be a trend in MMOs these days...), and I was reminded of the gambling in AR. If anyone is interested in reading the article, see the below link:

https://www.theverge.com/2019/2/19/18226852/loot-boxes-gaming-regulation-gambling-free-to-play

Anyway, regarding AR gambling... The method I use the most by far aside from random items (which everyone seems to use to some extent to get supplemental equipment) is roulette. Roulette has been a great way for me to drain my cash reserves when I don't set personal limits on how much I gamble in one session, lol. What I have learned to do when clearing the Unlit City is to limit my overall stakes to half of what I earn in one pass, generally in a series of smaller bets. If I win a couple times or I win a big prize, it's time to stop.

There's other forms of gambling of course. The pontoon always seemed like a waste of time to me, it's just an inferior form of blackjack really. Fanatiel's 5000 gold per spin never paid out anything but death for me (and more often it was just a waste of gold in general). It's possible to use dice for gambling, but only if two players are holding them at the same time. Then there's the items at the end of Mudfall's inner dungeon, or the Curse's cloak of darkness, or Nevros's robe (and other examples), all of which are different each time they are obtained (though that's not really gambling other than Mudfall which is simply taking a risk to get who knows what). Finally, there is poker... Poker can be fun if you can avoid getting into altercations, though it helps to have a high-ranked Herald around in case things do go south (so troublemakers get barred).

Oh, and there is also imbuing rares (which requires gathering specific ingredients and costs a premium on top of that in addition to knowing the recipe; this turns a rare into something else entirely), and augmenting items in the Fireforge for minor improvements.

Still, I would say that AR's gambling is relatively harmless overall. Most of it is a waste, though the random items can be useful if done enough times. It's certainly nowhere near as bad as what I see in MMOs these days; hell, even RuneScape has jumped on that bandwagon of the "open random loot chests and you may get cool things but more likely you'll get junk or average shit". Another thing I like about AR is that it's not pay to win (whether through loot chest requirements as cited in the article above, or through direct transfer like in Facebook). What do you guys think?
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Dogran
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2019 5:33 am    Post subject:

I won 2million on a black 10 once...
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Davairus
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Joined: 16 Jan 2004
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2019 8:16 am    Post subject:

Gambling thread huh.

I've actually studied addiction a lot for years now, because it runs deep in my family. This all depends on how you operate your definition of addiction, but for me its compusively engaging in any habit that serves to alter ones mood and leading to negative consequence. e.g. as a denial mechanic. some of this is a healthy thing, for sure, but I think what makes an addiction different especially is when you are powerless to stop your engagement and own your reality anymore.

There are lots of different kind of addictions. Gambling, drugs, alcohol and cocaine obviously well-known. But there are other addictions just as severe that seem more acceptable - eating, religions, gaming, over-exercise, caffeine, work. Look around all over the place, you will see addictions in plain view. Fishing. You can be addicted to fishing. I have seen people addicted to their cats. And really what they all boil down to is the same thing. Mood alteration. We don't just get addicted to the small hits of dopamine, those just help stop you from getting bored of it and leaving for a better addiction. We'll also get addicted to the downtime in between those hits, such as the numbing boredom of a levelling grind, or the mindless repetition of scriptures, or just watching TV vegged out, or staring at your float in the water waiting for a bite, etc etc. I think people who are feeling depressed are more likely to engage in a bit more of an 'exciting' addiction (probably pk'ing in AR, or maybe compulsively reading donald trump tweets or other stimulating social media type stuff, or eating candy), while people who are feeling anxious are more likely to avoid those sort of exciting encounters and go with the numbing out route (smoking weed for example, watching tv, glass of wine). And you can get into a cycle. Also, a lot of what keeps an addiction going is simply feeling bad about having it, because thats more feelings to escape from, and a method for that has already been established, so with that you're really off to the races. I think if none of the factors I talked about are present, then the 'addiction' is probably very low-risk even. Whereas with all the factors present, people can literally become addicted easily to things that are normally safe behaviors.

Also with addictions, one of the most interesting things I've liked reading into is actually what gets demonized by the newspapers. Cocaine and other drugs are divisive topics right now, but I think over time these will move towards legalization. Its the same deal with online gambling. This stuff should all be legal in my opinion. This stuff is being exploited politically instead of recognizing problems correctly as diseases.

All addictions basically follow from the same sort of reasons, they are diseases that follow from seeking a change of mood or escape. This is why in the past I've said don't bother to quit AR cold turkey just because you think you're addicted. Its very dangerous to do that. Its more than likely you'll switch. You'll trade that addiction for another. And you'll be just as deeply addicted in your new addiction. Imagine going from AR to meth. Some of us sadly did.

Another way people engage in an addictive-like behavior is simply to just dissociate. Just daydreaming, zoning out, going through flashbacks. It has all the same consequences as being addicted to something, without any actual substance abuse. This happens with PTSD sufferers. It has the same kind of underlying reasons, very often some kind of unresolved trauma or shame being behind the whole thing. The depression, the anxiety, it follows the anger, or sometimes the anger is followed by the depression and anxiety, thats whats setting the stage for an addiction.

So that all said, AR or its staff isn't really responsible for anyones inability to regulate playtime, and it certainly isnt our place to tell anyone what to do with their time. There are companies out there that capitalize on people's urges - especially the food and beer industries, and as a followup the pharmaceuticals. There are some substances which are addictive because they cultivate a true chemical dependency, of course. Nicotine does that. But for the most part, if you're getting in too deep into something, I think its probably because you're trying to use escape or denial to avoid something else. And AR is a "drug" that doesn't really lead to any long-term health consequences for playing too much. In many ways this game is setup, deliberately, to be therapeutic, cathartic. Its not meant to be a sadomasochistic game, but it does offer a place to take anger, especially from trauma. This is an artistic outlet. That's very important in addiction recovery in fact. Its one very wholesome reason why I hope AR will be always around. This game isn't designed to suck you into an addiction shit vortex. In fact anyone who is having a bad time easily just rage deletes the f out, pretty much dispelling that theory.

As far as the gambling system goes, if I recall this correctly, one day I said to Burzuk, it would be kind of neat if the red dragons armor class was slightly randomized. Its the same item every time. I think people kill that dragon for a leggings or whatever a lot, and it would be interesting if you could roll the stats, at least on the AC which is minor. My thinking was just, what would be the harm? He didn't think it would be worth the work to do something minor, but we agreed on the sentiment that there were people who basically sat around locating rares and decided there was a gap to insert a gambled item system in the store items (which back then basically was pointless crap). So the gambling system came into play, with a very well-defined purpose. For that reason it isnt a waste of time, not at all. It has a place of purpose, especially for the non-rare preferring players. Also, there are overlords in the game now that drop a random item. We have dabbled in this stuff in a number of ways that are significant. But that's definitely not super-evil addictive crap. I don't see how anybody could get addicted to the "rush" of getting an ok item from the unlucky smuggler after 300 fails and 2 million gold. What AR offers is something to have a healthy obsession with.
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Grayden



Joined: 21 Jun 2005
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 12, 2020 11:04 pm    Post subject: Game theory

Ok, so I can tell you the max bet is 100k, because I wanted to bet more.

Spoiler alert the house tends to win.

I was looking at some game theory and it confirmed doubling your bet will not work. In the past tried I tripling my bet but still ended up broke or at the betting limit, then broke.

A sound method I read about is double your bet plus the original bet, ie 1k, 3k, 7k, and starting with 250k got up to 400k but still ended up broke. The problem being that you reach a betting limit and the game the odds are not in your favor. I don't think it is like a random number poll, but random chart with modifiers if you win the bet.

You play in hope of a jackpot, your bet x10 in winnings, and pray you don't get double 00, but the longer you can play the better chance you find that jackpot or go broke.

In summary, this is a game in game with it's own rules, so you should play roulette if you are a follower of Vanisse (god of luck), holding a four leaf clover, wearing lucky necklaces and perhaps blessed by a bard, or you might push to win on black and get 10 red in a row. Good luck.
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Bladefury

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Joined: 11 Jun 2012
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 12, 2020 11:36 pm    Post subject:

Lol back when I made my first bard in 2008 or 9 I figured out I could sing all my luck spells on knights and legion before they did roulette and they would win almost every single time in talking millions of gold. That's how that got changed.
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