Update class descriptions for specs

[Ergorion]

Hey there. I know there are a bunch of classes that have specs and I think it would be helpful to provide what options are available in the class description and a little on what the consequences of choosing that spec are.

Like dk and berserker don't say anything about specs and I frankly don't even remember what the berserker options are or what they do. The invoker file just says you can choose an element and it will change your ability.

I think the class descriptions would be more helpful if it was like:
"Within the dark-knight guildhall two major philosophies war with each other. One, followed by those chaotic dark-knights or chaotic leaning neutral, is based on the idea of overwhelming force and quickly annihilating your opponent. The other, followed by lawful and lawful leaning neutral, takes a more defensive war of attrition approach designed to win by outsmarting and outlasting your opponent."

Just something so we can actually have a little idea of what we might like to play before rolling something up and spending a couple hours on it.

[Kedaleam]

I think it's a good idea.

Just wanted to say berserker should be easy to just throw in something about dragon ancestry, since that's their specs.

[Stiehl26]

Yes, please. I didn't realize, at all, that alignment dictated specific class powers and was very confused when I leveled and when it lists spells/skills that you get for that level, I would get skills listed that I didn't have.

[Davairus]

That stuff is supposed to be for advanced players to figure out, but if you think it'll be helpful in terms of marketing, I'm more than happy to do that.

[Stiehl26]

You never know what something reads that will be their hook. Someone may see a class and think "meh" but then see that each class has its own specificities and be drawn to a particular path. Or someone may always play x because they never even knew y existed.

I am a huge proponent of making the information as accessible as possible...especially in the medium that we are hoping to draw in more players.

[Vevier]

I concur with Stiehl, I don't think class information should be gated or hidden. Some classes may be designed for vets, but we shouldn't alienate newbs.

[IrishMidnight]

Sheesh. Seriously.

I tried playing here because there are many features I rather do enjoy (things that lend themselves to more modernized gaming mechanisms), but damn if I couldn't get the motivation enough to figure out the hidden/gated nuances. I've played carrion fields since about 13 or 14 years old - I'm 37 now. There's a lot to still figure out there, but so much is spelled out in the helpfiles... you know what legacies your warrior will have the option of picking, which terrain/expertise you choose with the ranger, what skills that dictate, etc, etc...

Also, your hardcap level 25 for cabals... eesh. I remember when CF was that way 15-20 yrs ago, and they've been better off for making that more dynamic and dependent on the cabal itself. At 15, you can pledge to the cabal (leaders will know when you log on/off, and as long as you're actively pursuing the cabal and its tenants, you aren't going to be punished by passing level 25).

I'm sure my post'll be written off, but hopefully not entirely based on the merit I consider myself well versed in several different mud bases, a programmer, and someone who tried to get into Abandoned Realms somewhat unsuccessfully.

Things like the anti-paladin difference of ethos relating to powers would have been an appropriate hook to know going in. I'm sure a ton of other "hidden" things might have been too.

Conjurers for the win though... in Thera that is

[Davairus]

If you can just get me a to-do list, that would be great. Also, I don't really think learning curve is a big an issue as it seems. Mostly just memorize the map and get purples/wild weapons wins most people. Nobody knows everything

[Stiehl26]

I am not positive what classes have different options for their alignments but I do know that berserkers and dark knights do. The to do list would be just list out what the differences are.

[Matrix]

lawful dks are better at mounted combat than chaotic dks, lose unholy strength, and gain the ability to use bucklers to shield block when wielding two handed weapons like paladins can. They have a vastly reduced chance to lose concentration when casting spells while mounted

fun trivia: paladins gained the buckler skill as part of the dark knight specialization update

[Ergorion]

I think it's really just dk, berserker, and I would add invoker to that list.

The invoker help file currently has that they can specialize in an element but there's nothing that really jumps out to anyone that specializing does cool shit.

So like listing that you can specialize in earth, fire, or lightning(?) with a link to the help file on those specialties. If there isn't a help file, maybe some run of the mill: fire invoker is badass offensive invoker. Earth invoker is indestructible if built right. Lightning invoker, do they exist?

[Matrix]

The invoker spec differences are pretty subtle and not many people fully understand the benefits of the specializations. I think I've seen some fire invokers using wildfire pretty effectively but I don't think I've seen an earth invoker, lightning invoker, or ice invoker played to its strengths unless you count the ice invoker I played way back when they were first released. These specs and the lawful dk spec are meant to be investigated by players looking for hidden advantages they can exploit and the specifics of the specializations aren't meant to be known to the wider pbase. There are some extremely powerful things hidden in them that nobody has ever used at all so far. And also in monk stances, shadow skills, and dark knight and berserker specializations. You guys have to put in the leg work to test the features and find the hidden skill combinations if you want to see the benefits.

Even the way the skills are coded is designed to obfuscate the interactions between the skills so even if an imm with code access looks at the code to try to make you a helpfile to explain the benefits of the specializations they won't be able to do it. If they do notice an interaction it's because they are clever and happened to discover it and not because it was obvious. I could do it for some of the ones I coded, Dav could do it for some of the ones he coded, and Olyn could do it for some of the eq he made but it's been a long time and there have been a lot of changes and not even we remember all of exactly what we did.

[Stiehl26]

So truthfully no one knows of it is working as intended, people can’t check if it is, and players may not even know what they are seeing to know what it does? Those are classes I’ll steer clear from...too much ambiguity and lack of clarity in what they can do from an already pseudo overwhelmed with information guy. Still leaves plenty of classes
For me to try and I’ll let the vets have their fun finding the subtleties.

[Matrix]

Correct. Just as there are no helpfiles IRL that tell you how fast you can run or how high you can jump or how much traction your tires will give your car during hard braking, there's no helpfile in AR that will tell you exactly what the "chain lightning" spell can do in every situation. Just like IRL you have to test things out. You're really learning to use magic that nobody else in the entire world knows. It's not like other games where the experience you'll have is dictated by the developer who has an intended experience he wants you to have. Where if you see a treasure chest there's no way to get into it without killing the monster guarding it. In AR you are a character in a world that is unbounded and you can do anything if you can figure out how to do it. You can kill anyone or bypass any challenge if you can figure out the way to do it. You can be the invincible immortal wizard from the story book. It's possible to do. And it's not fair. You can obtain and wield an unfair advantage, if you have the skill to do it.

[Stiehl26]

Well stated. I don't disagree at all. To be the best you need to put in the work and do the research.

[Davairus]

I can work on it this afternoon. I thought about more reason why I didn't.
Ideally I'd like the skill/spell table to update properly to reflect the spec being looked at on the website. This will require a bunch of work

[Vevier]

You shouldnt need to roll up 5 trash characters to see which one gets which spells. We need more info available to players, instead of sending them in blind and telling them thats a feature.

[Kedaleam]

I see both sides. You should be able to see what each specialization does. I'll help whoever with making up the helpfiles no problem, if that's what we do.

At the same time, you are making it sound like all but ONE spec is good. I mean, invoker is probably the strongest class in the game, regardless of which spec you pick. Not rolling one because you are afraid it might be the wrong spec is a bit ridiculous to me. DK I am actually a bit curious about since I haven't delved into them since the rework. If i recall, it's only a couple spell/skill difference.

Sidenotes for the ones that are spelled out in some form:

Berserker specs are in the Dragon Ancestry helpfile.
Druid specs/racials are in the Druid Circle helpfile. (This one might need clarification on which spells/skills each race actually gets. Which is what Dav was saying about the tables and such.)

--They might just need to be tied into their respective class helpfiles somehow so people can navigate through them easier.

[Andrael]

Don't we have something similar for Druids? you can look at which circle gets whats spells during the creation process, can't you?