doors and exits thread

[Davairus]

One of the things I have had in mind for a while, maybe a bit late to fix this patch, is to have a discussion of our exit mechanics.

i.e. this

[Exits: west north south (east)]

Here are some of the talking points off the top of my head:

- rooms where we changed the "north" to "trunk"... maybe we have made it confusing to learn the game? I think whats worst about the trunk is its a hidden, named exit. Same with the weeds near the mansion. Maybe too difficult to find?
- is hidden exits working well ? I think we have things like elves, keen sight (rangers) can see these but they wouldnt know there was anything special about them
- Is there any value to having seen a closed door (east) or should we maybe do [east] or something to distinguish from hidden exit
- did we do enough stuff like 'pull boulder' or 'push boulder' for it to be obvious that sometimes it require an action other than "open" to open an exit. would you guys like more of these
- any interest in exits getting a "size" (e.g a tunnel) so we can do stuff for gnomes. or a "level" so we can make picking certain doors tougher more realistically
- is it intuitive to have 'portal' in the list of exits after one is opened

[BlackWidow]

Regarding the second to last point and lock picking... This could be handled through lock quality like it is in some places or in D&D itself, e.g. a poor lock is easy to pick, but one of master craftsmanship might prove very difficult indeed to pick.

With that said, if I go a step further (and derail the thread a bit), I would think that it might be possible to force certain doors.

Though with regards to exits in general... hidden/concealed doors and secret doors are entirely different things in my opinion. Secret doors, by their very nature, are intended to be hidden from casual view. Secret doors might even require a special operating mechanism... For example, a bookcase with a book which acts is a hidden lever is a special kind of door along the lines of what I am thinking of. I remember some sort of puzzle book where the exit to a library was through the use of a book titled "Handel" among other books about classical musicians, and the author of the "Handel" book was "Ima Lever". The weeds at the mansion in AR are more like a hidden or concealed door because, while they are not immediately obvious, they are by no means intended by mortals to be hidden. The weeds are just overgrown from the passage of time and lack of caretaking in that location.

[tayyah]

ive personally interacted with returning players get very frustrated with the tree fort in elven vale. The response varies from thats retarded to thats neat. probably depending on how much time they wasted before asking wtf is up. I am not personally against things like this. Like the way into the chess board in cloud castle, I, in 25 years would never have figured it out without someone showing me. I got turned around a few times. fell threw some clouds and just never went back. Getting the moss for the quest in the area west of Seringale, I spent hours trying and got frustrated and prayed for help because i gave up. I dont play the game to explore or rp. I play purely to pk. I like the adrenaline. So i get it for the pve side those players like things like this I get it, I do. Takes all types of players to make a mud. But I dont believe its a very rewarding experience to have something like that in a starting area.

One thing i would like to bring up is the hovel door. Not sure if this is intended, I havent seen it brought up anywhere. but potentially anyone could hide in a hovel against someone who doesnt have summon and there is zero they can do. I tried all sorts of commands variations of things with passdoor and charge to try to get a locked hovel open and I couldnt. So aside from summon or pick lock. You could just escape to your hovel free from harm

[Davairus]

Yep, that hovel door thing seems to be at fault.

Nycticora and I originally discussed up front (as in the first day we ever talked about lairs) that the door mechanics were THE most critical thing about the lair. The level of the door was to be its hitpoints, and you would be able to use skills to break the door down. Like, the Warlord ram skill. But I just had a look and it seems that the lair "door" is actually a closeable lockable portal object. It follows that you can obviously use your lair to get away from pk's trivially and also easily stash away large amounts of rare items.

Its clear its been worked hard on but the most critical piece is absent. We don't have a way to break the doors. Thank you for bringing this to my attention.

[Kalist19]

I think this is a great example of something that punishes newcomers/returning players and rewards the people that are able to sink tons of time into the game.

I just imagine fighting a guy and then trying to chase him through an area where he is able to squeeze through an entrance that I can't fit through, interact with an exit mechanic I have no clue about (something with a trunk?) and then summon me into a spot I have no hope of ever getting out of.

For brand new guys coming to the game, I just picture them walking to a wall and not knowing what to do with the exit (how do I go east) and getting frustrated.

I could see that being a bit of a turn off.

[Davairus]

Ok so far I found there are ways our builders have gone about making camouflaged exits, hidden exits, portals, and finally just standard exits.

1) The elf valley trunk is camouflaged exit. The only issue I found with that the player being forced to to type 'open trunk' instead of allowing 'open north'. You wouldnt guess that in a million years.
2) The darkhaven book store "shelves" is a hidden exit, also requires 'open shelves' and not 'open east', but it seems appropriate here. I think these type of exits should be rare and give you a secret solved credit when you find them, but there's probably others like the tree trunk.
3) The unsiliel woods exits (that you guess and squeeze through) are OPEN camouflaged exits. I dont see anything wrong with those.
4) The weeds in mansion is a normal exit, but shows up as 'weeds'. They allow 'open west'. That one seems intuitively a camouflaged exit, but isnt, maybe that is what a standard camouflaged exit should really look like.
5) The lair entrances are portals.

Seems like an easy fix for us would be allowing open north commands to always work unless specifically blocked by a new "Secret exit" flag which is northing to do with camo/hidden and probably camo/hidden is otherwise kinda the same thing

[Kalist19]

Thanks! I think that really does solve it.

[Resatimm]

Those door name functions were supposed to be quest related and have indications in the room description. Thats where the sub descriptions come in.

In this room blah blah there is a weird leaf wall shaped like Kalist’s ugly face.

Look leaf

This leaf wall, while very ugly like Kalist’s face, is actually a door.

Open leaf

A hole opens in the hedgerow.

Go hole

They should be very few in number, and be no_summon and as i said above - quest related. Whether it is a knowledge quest or deep raid type quest doesnt matter, but it shouldnt be in areas where PK tends to happen.

[Resatimm]

And holy shit Kalist, your signature is old.

[Kalist19]

ohhh maybe i should turn off brief mode?

Whoa never noticed the signature...must have set it 15 years ago and promptly forgotten about it...

[Davairus]

im done with my work here. please report weird shit via bug command as usual