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Skills added: holy/unholy armor, set parry, and strike of fa
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Abandoned Realms



Joined: 23 Jan 2004
Posts: 248

PostPosted: Thu Nov 24, 2005 3:53 pm    Post subject: Skills added: holy/unholy armor, set parry, and strike of fa

By our faith, my brothers, we have been charged with new tools to use to
curb the ever-spreading tide of evil. Knowledge of the HOLY ARMOR, SET
PARRY, and STRIKE OF FAITH skills have been entrusted to us for use against
our foes. Alas, I hear dark tidings that our dark-knight counterparts have
likewise gained UNHOLY ARMOR, SET PARRY, and STRIKE OF PAIN to match us.
May the Light prevail against such new threats.

News from other guildmasters have informed me that the following skills are
no longer taught by the paladin or dark-knight guilds: dodge, trance,
counter, blindness, and cleave. My heart cries aloud with joy to also hear
that the teaching of enhanced damage is now considered blasphemous to the
shaman guild as well. I pray that although these signs of tumult among the
guilds of the Gods' faithfuls do not portend of evil news in the heavens.

May the Light grant you strength to defeat those who would see it extinguished.
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Vertas



Joined: 17 Jan 2004
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 24, 2005 9:20 pm    Post subject:

Strike of faith isn't bad, its pretty cool in fact, holy armor adds a ton of ac, set parry seems to work but im pretty sure i prefer dodge. Losing trance and counter will be a big loss, I mean I now recover mana waaaay too slowly and everyone will take advantage of the lack of counter by just flee murder all the time...

I see that by adding set parry your trying to get more people to use two handed weapons by adding an extra defense while using them, but now palis can only ever have two defenses. Parry and shieldblock or parry and set parry, however before palis could have three defenses at a time dodge shieldblock parry, or parry and dodge.

Not that im complaining in fact I like the idea of being able to special parry with two handed weapons but letting them have three defenses at a time always (with the exception of dual wielding).

A more balanced idea might be finding a way so that palis and dks can have a dodge type skill while dual wielding as well as this one, to make up for the loss of dodge.


Open for criticism and flaming.
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Remmenon



Joined: 10 Oct 2005
Posts: 110
Location: Edmonton AB Canada

PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2005 2:15 am    Post subject: Okay, I take that back

Okay, I take that back. WTF!!! took cleave away! WTF!!! took blindness away?!! WTFFF!!!! I mean now the DKS are becoming subclass warriors.. Oh god that is so gay, Zerkers get a huge improvement, DK's a Gimp bashing... Palis well I dont care about them anyhow. but it's not like anything was taken from them except dodge. I mean they never shoulda got trance OR counter in the first place. But BLINDNESS AND CLEAVE? Comeon! Give the Dk's something to strike a little fear in peoples hearts instead.. I mean instead of cleave, give them some cool striking attack then, or something! but blindness? GIVE BACK SPELLS TO DKS! GEEz!

Oh well, Another Character turned into a subclass warrior! Hail the Warrior! Scream
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Remmenon



Joined: 10 Oct 2005
Posts: 110
Location: Edmonton AB Canada

PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2005 2:20 am    Post subject: Oh another thought!

Yah, Here's another comforting thought.. If parry's prime attributes is strength, and I'm assuming set parry is also based on that, then There's no reason to have good dex except for hitroll purposes and maybe for some armor.. So for all you drow dk's and elf palis just commit suicide because that extra dex is all for nothing now.

I can't believe you got rid of blindness GOD that is soooooo lame. You took away sleep, weaken, faerie fire, gimped charm... took cleave.. extort... dodge, hmm, here's an idea why don't you take away... no better not cause you guys would.
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"My spider sense is tingling! Oh shite, it looks like everyone's out to get me."
Note from Stan: Spidey..err..Remmy's been under a lot of stress lately, dear readers!
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LABruinCub



Joined: 30 Jan 2004
Posts: 124

PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2005 2:25 am    Post subject: Haha, there was a time...

When there were constant posts about how overpowered paladins were due to them being two classes instead of a true hybrid class (half of a class and half of another class)... namely from me and other people.

The changes from the IMMs have finally addressed those balance problems.

Sorry buddy, you give paladins wrath, sanc, cure, and trance and you got a pretty good healer on offense and defense. Plus add third attack, 3 defenses and you're already more of a warrior than even thieves or ninjas. I'm glad a defense and trance is taken away to make up for wrath, sanc, and cure.
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LABruinCub



Joined: 30 Jan 2004
Posts: 124

PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2005 2:31 am    Post subject: As for DKNs...

Eh, they shouldn't be as buff as warriors anyways. If they have spells that give them an advantage over true warriors, they shouldn't have the best warrior skills either... things like 3 defenses, dual wield and 3rd attack make no sense with you combine them with spells like fireball and cure light.

AR is about balance, and that's really what makes AR a true thinking game. I don't want a class that everyone picks because they simply are overwhelmingly powerful compared to other classes.
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Remmenon



Joined: 10 Oct 2005
Posts: 110
Location: Edmonton AB Canada

PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2005 4:27 am    Post subject: you know what?

You know what cleave was useless anyways, strike of pain is cooler, almost... too powerful.

But Comeon, taking blindness away? Oooh, I got cure light, the lag on that only lets me cast it like 4 times a tick and it doesn't heal that much.

fireball? Gimme a break. That's been so toned down and you'll rarely use it because it'll hit something better then what youre actually trying to kill.

But blindness is one of the best spells a dk has, and it's totally stupid why he has to use dirt kick like a regular warrior now. You can have your cheesey unholy strength crap back. it's not even worth it, cause by the time you actually get around to killing the guy boom, drained.

Warriors should be more buff? Gimme a break. If warriors are going to be that buff then they should get an experience penalty which I think should seriously happen because they are way too buff already and the experience penalty should be lessened on dks because they're trash now.

I mean you can't even charm creatures now without getting the snot beat outta yah because he's pissed off after it runs out(usually unluckily when you're fighting someone) Or You try to charm him once and it fails, so you can't try it again because he'll just attack you again. The blindness spell being taken away is a two or three hit blow. Charm person is about the only good spell a dk has.. and now that's been reduced to rubble. Thanks Imms at AR. True to form you've now gimped another class. .. If you're going to keep it gimped atleast don't have the exp penalty on it because dk's dont deserve it anymore.. Good job. Charm person was about the only thing that evened the odds against a paladin.. well.. not anymore. Nice. Thanks for getting rid of blindness. I mean it's WAAAY too hard to go grab a gyvel potion from aruncus north of town.. like 4 spaces away.. geez. I mean blindness won't work on a player that can actually play, because they'll be prepared with a few of those. I am usually all the time. oh and what? a level 51 potion only costs 1100 gold. OOh that's too expensive for me.. God. You guys are lame.
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"You wanna know who I am! I'm Remmenon-man!"
"My spider sense is tingling! Oh shite, it looks like everyone's out to get me."
Note from Stan: Spidey..err..Remmy's been under a lot of stress lately, dear readers!
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Remmenon



Joined: 10 Oct 2005
Posts: 110
Location: Edmonton AB Canada

PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2005 4:40 am    Post subject: Oh my god

I mean I try and get half way through your stupid posts and I can't help but feel an overwhelming rage wash over me.

I didn't post a damn thing about Palis, I agree counter and trance.. too much but dodge? I mean every numpty can freaking dodge.

Dk's? Oh my god. THEY ARE NOT WARRIORS! THEY ARE DARK-KNIGHTS! Not half/half. God. This one right here, this comment really makes me wanna bash peanut brain right outta yer ear for being sooo stupid

Quote:
If they have spells that give them an advantage over true warriors, they shouldn't have the best warrior skills either... things like 3 defenses, dual wield and 3rd attack make no sense with you combine them with spells like fireball and cure light.


Oh yah, cause you don't need to defend yourself against fourth attack, God. Yah, three basic defenses for a half and half guy just really seems unfair considering Warriors get like 5 or six defences plus fourth attack.. hmm. maybe third attack is just good enough for regular warrior like guys.. geez maybe Mad God you stupid piece of shit. Yah, cause hey, dodge is just waaay too overpowering to have for a guy. I mean hey, here you go, you can't move around but you can parry and block with your shield. so basically if you say this for real, it'd look hilarious some dude, just standing there, bracing for impact for the hits he takes, and just standing there, parrying, and taking hits with his shield.. yah.. SSOOO GAY! BALANCE? Oh MY GOD WTF ARE YOU THINKING! If it is soooo fucking balanced why the fuck is there a fucking exp handicap on fucking dks and fucking palis? Huh? WHAT THE FUCK! why don't you take poison away because that's a pretty gimp useless spell. fucking take it. But Dodge for both? fucking that's just sooo fucking stupid. god that is so stupid. so when your dual wielding youre just going to get slaughtered. i mean under the new combat system only having dodge and parry is shady enough when dual wielded.. but now only one skill... fucking morons just never cease to amaze me. so you're forcing dks and palis to favor defensive, and maybe two handed. fuck that is sooo fucking stupid.

Quote:
AR is about balance, and that's really what makes AR a true thinking game. I don't want a class that everyone picks because they simply are overwhelmingly powerful compared to other classes.


THEN WHY THE FUCK ARE THERE SOO MANY FUCKING WARRIORS IF IT'S SOO FUCKING BALANCED HUH? I DON'T SEE ANY FUCKING THIEVES PAST 45, LET ALONE LEVEL FIFTY, HOW MANY DKS YOU SEE AT LEVEL FIFTY RIGHT NOW? HOW MANY FUCKING NINJAS YOU SEE AT FUCKING LEVEL FIFTY? HOW MANY FUCKING ILLUSIONISTS YOU SEE AT FUCKING LEVEL FIFTY? GOD YOU ARE A STUPID PIECE OF SHIT. ALL OF YOU. I FUCKING QUIT THIS GAME. THIS GAME HAS GONE RIGHT DOWN THE SHITTER. FUCK TRYING TO KEEP NEWBIES, JUST TRY AND KEEP REGULAR PLAYERS PERIOD YOU STUPID FUCKS!
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"You wanna know who I am! I'm Remmenon-man!"
"My spider sense is tingling! Oh shite, it looks like everyone's out to get me."
Note from Stan: Spidey..err..Remmy's been under a lot of stress lately, dear readers!
- Dav
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Davairus
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2005 4:55 am    Post subject:

Here is an at-a-glance summary of the way the defences break down for our classes now.

Fighters - 3 defences
Rogues - 2 defences + counterbalance
Hybrids - 2 defences
Clerics - 2 defences, 1 being weak shield
Mages - 1 defence

As you can see, the amount of defences a class has is set quite purposefully the way it is, its not being changed willy-nilly to fudge the class into being fixed up, there is a legitimate system of control in place here. Obviously, hybrids dont have the defences of warriors because they also have a heapload of MAGIC ability. It isnt difficult to how see that is balanced.
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Slade
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Joined: 17 Mar 2004
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2005 5:27 am    Post subject:

Set parry is pretty brilliant. Hybrids (not darkknights quite as much but definitely paladins) had it coming and you had to expect disappointment. No doubt the net effect of the changes here for them is a big drop, but out of comes the very interesting, and fitting playstyle, of 2-h weapons. When I think knights (pal, dk) I think two handed weapons or maybe sword and shield. Rem, lets be real, these classes aren't dual wielders, its not fitting. I think its great that 2-h is so viable for them now. Its also very unique in this game to have a 2h defense like that, and further defines them a bit. The rest of this stuff (holy armor, strike of faith) looks largely like throw-ins so who cares, but great thinking on set parry whoever.

Also good to see shamans losing enhanced damage, though I'm a little surprised healers didn't lose something at least minor too. Interesting to see how all these changes play out and what class balance ends up as.
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Louis



Joined: 19 Jan 2004
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Location: Los Angeles, CA

PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2005 5:28 am    Post subject:

An intuitive setup.
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Trillian



Joined: 05 Nov 2004
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Location: 127.0.0.1

PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2005 6:11 am    Post subject:

Slade wrote:
Also good to see shamans losing enhanced damage, though I'm a little surprised healers didn't lose something at least minor too. Interesting to see how all these changes play out and what class balance ends up as.


There are two ways for a healer to win. 1) a really really good player or 2) an overly aggressive attacker. The healer in and of itself should never be able to finish off another character assuming same speed movement. I think that's pretty balanced.
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Trillian



Joined: 05 Nov 2004
Posts: 337
Location: 127.0.0.1

PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2005 6:31 am    Post subject: Re: Oh my god

Remmenon wrote:
WAAAAAAAAHH!!!!!


STFU noob.
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marsd



Joined: 16 Jan 2004
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2005 6:38 am    Post subject:

[quote="Remmemon"]
wall of whine sob sob cry wtfpwnzor shitez
[quote]

Deal with it. Personally I think the new changes to pala/dk owns it up. Make one and try it yourself before you whine..
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Nero



Joined: 22 Sep 2004
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2005 6:48 am    Post subject:

Change is good.
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shasha



Joined: 14 Jun 2005
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2005 7:38 pm    Post subject: poison useless?

Last time i looked poison wasn't useless.

It causes some damage.

It reduces strength which means reduced parry and no heavy weapons.

It reduces dex which means reduced dodge and armor and hitroll.

It makes you heal less quickly.

It reduces hit/dam on top of all of the above.

But everyone seems to think its gimp?
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Stephen2_Aust



Joined: 10 Oct 2005
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2005 7:54 pm    Post subject:

Remennon is NOT everybody...

Thanks for the work, Imps.[/list]
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trance_monkey



Joined: 16 Nov 2005
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2005 8:09 pm    Post subject:

I just wonder if there's any extra measures that could be taken to make elf pal/drow dkn not non-existant? Now that dodge is missing, could parry or set parry have dex added to them? A little?

I'm just super bummed that now all classes are almost solely going to be played as humans.

It's really boring.
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Slade
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2005 8:44 pm    Post subject:

Not a bad idea..

"By bracing the hilt of the weapon against his armor and
guiding its movement with both hands". I think you could easily take that to be DEX based. And that would of course make the most sense balance wise I think (replace dodge with set parry, ok, make it dex based to keep the consistency). Humans would still be good, elves/drow would still be playable, etc.

By the way, if set parry isn't equal or close to shield block in effectiveness I take back my praise. Wink
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divsky
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2005 11:53 pm    Post subject:

Quote:
Dk's? Oh my god. THEY ARE NOT WARRIORS! THEY ARE DARK-KNIGHTS! Not half/half. God.


Dark Knight 300 Warriors of Evil


From their helpfile:

"They devote their lives to the study of both dark magic and physical combat"

"by combining rigorous physical and magical training"

Sounds pretty half/half to me.

Quote:
fireball? Gimme a break. That's been so toned down and you'll rarely use it because it'll hit something better then what youre actually trying to kill.


I didn't realize extra MANGLES every round was so wimpy. Why is it then that even invokers regularly use this spell before getting hellstream?

Quote:
But blindness is one of the best spells a dk has, and it's totally stupid why he has to use dirt kick like a regular warrior now.


That's just pure whining. You're complaining that they have to use their -other- powerful blinding skill instead of the one you prefer. wah

Quote:
I mean it's WAAAY too hard to go grab a gyvel potion from aruncus north of town.. like 4 spaces away.. geez. I mean blindness won't work on a player that can actually play, because they'll be prepared with a few of those.


What are you complaining about then? You pretty much just clearly laid out that you're upset because you can't use blind to get cheese kills on novice players. After all, if they actually know how to play, it won't work on them, right? You're not picking up any sympathy there.

Quote:
! If it is soooo fucking balanced why the fuck is there a fucking exp handicap on fucking dks and fucking palis?


The xp penalties doesn't give a class free reign to be over-powered. It's just there to make them more difficult to play.

Quote:
so when your dual wielding youre just going to get slaughtered.


Quote:
I mean hey, here you go, you can't move around but you can parry and block with your shield. so basically if you say this for real, it'd look hilarious some dude, just standing there, bracing for impact for the hits he takes, and just standing there, parrying, and taking hits with his shield


They're knights, right? Knights don't jump around crazily dodging shit with a weapon in each hand like they're on crack. That's what rangers, thieves, ninjas and warriors do. That description you gave sounds like a pretty accurate description of how a knight should fight to me.

Quote:
THEN WHY THE FUCK ARE THERE SOO MANY FUCKING WARRIORS IF IT'S SOO FUCKING BALANCED HUH? I DON'T SEE ANY FUCKING THIEVES PAST 45, LET ALONE LEVEL FIFTY, HOW MANY DKS YOU SEE AT LEVEL FIFTY RIGHT NOW?


Warriors are currently overpowered. Thieves are underpowered. Dark knights were overpowered. Just because two other classes are completely imbalanced doesn't mean they can't balance another class thats overpowered. Do you know how many posts we see complaining about dark knights and paladins being overpowered?

Quote:
So for all you drow dk's and elf palis just commit suicide because that extra dex is all for nothing now.


well elf paladins have always been considered stronger than humans. I wouldn't say they're useless now, especially considering that paladins are lag-bait and avoiding bash is dependant on dex. Also, both paladins and dkns rely on mana quite a bit. Without trance, they'll need it even more. That will make the extra mana elves and drow get more important.


Anyways, you're just mad because you're cheese-ass newbie pwninater class got toned down. Cry me a fucking river dick-cheese.
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