Forum Links 

Click to return to main page
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Private MessagesPrivate Messages   Log inLog in 
 Current Top Five Rated Killers 
 Next Event   Voting Links 








IMPORTANT updates: HELP LAW, HELP WITNESS, HELP DEPUTY.
Goto page 1, 2  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Abandoned Realms Forum Index -> Updates
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Abandoned Realms



Joined: 23 Jan 2004
Posts: 246

PostPosted: Sun Dec 18, 2005 5:56 am    Post subject: IMPORTANT updates: HELP LAW, HELP WITNESS, HELP DEPUTY.

Citizens of Thera! The eyes of the Law are ever vigilant, and now the
absence of Justice officers is no longer an invitation for crimes. The
Justice cabal now accepts the testimony of lawful WITNESSES to assist them
in the identification of criminals. Also, lawful DEPUTIES will now be
recruited to assist in the apprehension of criminals.



The KNOW ALIGNMENT spell will allow you to identify any potential witnesses
should you chance breaking the law. Only those of lawful ethos may witness.



Those of chaotic ethos are hereby warned: crimes committed by those whose
hearts are chaotic are now judged more severely in the eyes of the Law, and
Justices will judge and confiscate more severely after apprehending any
chaotic criminals. Also, wild items are hereby declared contraband by the
Justice cabal. Any wild items found by a Justice officer, including after
apprehending a criminal, will be impounded rather than being returned.
Impounded items do NOT count toward what a Justice will normally confiscate.

Familiarize yourself with the following: HELP LAW, HELP DEPUTY, HELP WITNESS,
HELP CONFISCATE, HELP WILD ITEMS, HELP LAWFUL, and HELP CHAOTIC.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
 
0 0 0
Gygh



Joined: 22 Jan 2004
Posts: 289
Location: Vancouver, WA

PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2005 4:49 am    Post subject:

Does this mean Justices can't use Wild items?
_________________
Toy Soldiers off to war.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
 
0 0 0
Jamus



Joined: 18 Jun 2005
Posts: 593
Location: Valour

PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2005 5:02 am    Post subject:

No. They just jack 'em from the chaotics and use them for themselves.

Man, I hate Justices.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
 
0 0 0
Ace High



Joined: 28 Mar 2004
Posts: 159
Location: Florida

PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2005 5:40 am    Post subject:

Ehh, justices have never been able to use wild items.
_________________
Shuffle up and deal...
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
 
0 0 0
marsd



Joined: 16 Jan 2004
Posts: 836
Location: Magewares

PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2005 5:45 am    Post subject:

they mean sacrifice.
_________________
Magewares.net - Ye Abandoned Realms' live stream partner
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
 
0 0 0
RaisinBread



Joined: 26 Nov 2005
Posts: 15

PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2005 12:02 am    Post subject:

Jamus wrote:
Man, I hate Justices.


Doesn't this functionality actually indicate how well they do at their job? To me their philosophy is flawed. We keep law in Seringale ... if we're there.... and if we want to... or if someone else wants to..... and only in Seringale. Gods be damned if we're gonna help you outside of town.

Wink
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
 
0 0 0
Amdorin



Joined: 16 Jan 2004
Posts: 833
Location: No matter how much a failure, no life is worthless. You can always serve as a bad example.

PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2005 1:43 am    Post subject:

Basically what this mean is:

-Chaotics have to be rich bastards cuz most their stuff has to be bought and even more reason if they are gonna piss off Justice (death from being wanted; just about all items gone[more severe punishment] ESPECIALLY wild items;)
-If you're suited in wild armor, you're goin down hard and will be naked with money looted, again reinterating the need to be a rich bastard
-Justices will basically "autosac" wild items cuz they can't wear them. Unless they get some kinda "impound" command, which I doubt cuz that would be pointless.

I'm sure the full concept and implementation of chaotic stuff is still in the works, cuz for now chaotics are screwed over by justice/deputies/witnesses.

Simple solution would be "stay out of town" and "don't attack in town", but everyone camps in town so those solutions are just solutions by Justices. Let's see what else goes down.
_________________
Mullet starts dry-humping the air, thrusting his pelvis at the ladies.

<30hp 100m 100mv>
Joikala rolls her eyes, disgusted.
Saegen rolls her eyes, disgusted.
Kailya rolls her eyes, disgusted.
Baer rolls his eyes, disgusted.Laughing
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
 
0 0 0
Sebryn



Joined: 16 Jan 2004
Posts: 1204

PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2005 3:00 am    Post subject:

RaisinBread wrote:
To me their philosophy is flawed. We keep law in Seringale ... if we're there.... and if we want to... or if someone else wants to..... and only in Seringale. Gods be damned if we're gonna help you outside of town.

Of all cabals, Justices hands-down have the most powerful flag for those that break their "rules" (Knights - ANATHEMA, Warlord - DEATHMARK, Legion - CONTRACTED), that being the [WANTED] flag. The reason it's so potent is because a) several mobs (including some powerful ones, i.e. Dagnir the enforcer) impede the progress of criminals by attacks and whatnot, b) it either ends in death or a hefty fee (paying off wanted flag for non-chaotics), c) it brings out a beefy special guard to play with, and (probably most importantly) d) it works outside of PK ranges.

To combat that powerful flag, there are several restrictions put in place, namely that it's only used against people who break the law, in only ONE area in-game. Could you imagine if ALL hometowns (Seringale, Timaran, Darkhaven, Valour) were still covered by the Justices? You'd have one Justice camping in each hometown, waiting for someone to attack, therefore everybody would be either hiding out in towns fearing for their lives, or daring to attack anyway and getting wanted in the process.

Justices, just like police officers in real life, have their own lives as well. They can't be expected to town-sit the entire time they're actively logged on; that would be a boring, monotonous, pointless character. Instead they watch town when necessary, and tend to their private lives when it's not. Expecting them to be in town all the time is absurd, and several times the more PK-oriented crowd have even wished that Justices would leave so that they could take care of a target or two.

I always find it amusing when people complain about the Justices not being around, but then I see several of the same people whining when the Justices pop into town just when they choose to attack someone and end up getting flagged for it. You can't have your cake and eat it too; the best advice is to realize that Seringale is the ONLY area in the game (and there are SEVERAL areas) that Justices can actively protect people in, so use that knowledge to your benefit - on either the giving or receiving end of PK attempts.

Quote:
-Chaotics have to be rich bastards cuz most their stuff has to be bought and even more reason if they are gonna piss off Justice (death from being wanted; just about all items gone[more severe punishment] ESPECIALLY wild items)

Not all equipment that a chaotic wears HAS to be chaotic. Short answer: If you're playing a chaotic character and you want all wild equipment, then don't PK in Seringale.

Quote:
-If you're suited in wild armor, you're goin down hard and will be naked with money looted, again reinterating the need to be a rich bastard

Refer to my previous statement: if you're chaotic, either a) don't attempt to PK in town, b) learn to PK the Justices, or c) learn to run really, really fast.

Quote:
-Justices will basically "autosac" wild items cuz they can't wear them. Unless they get some kinda "impound" command, which I doubt cuz that would be pointless.

Lawful characters can't hold wild items, so consider the impounded equipment to be gone... destroyed, eaten, fashioned into a nifty hat, whatever. It ain't getting returned.

Quote:
I'm sure the full concept and implementation of chaotic stuff is still in the works, cuz for now chaotics are screwed over by justice/deputies/witnesses.

The wild weapons and wild equipment still work great outside of town. As far as I'm aware, they're not getting tweaked any further.

Quote:
Simple solution would be "stay out of town" and "don't attack in town", but everyone camps in town so those solutions are just solutions by Justices. Let's see what else goes down.

Well, the first part of that is right. Solution: stay out of town and don't attack in town. If your victim/target is camping in town with a Justice, then either suck it up and go in for the kill, or wait until they leave. People can't rank in Seringale, and if they're at 50 and camping then you should be too, at which point you can potentially handle yourself against a Justice anyway.

A couple of notes in closing here:

1. Everybody seems to CONTINUOUSLY fail to keep in their minds the fact that Seringale is only ONE AREA. Yes, I'll admit, it's probably hands-down the most frequently travelled area in the game, but you can't play the game forever just sitting in Seringale (well, you could, but there'd be no point). Everybody has to leave sometime, so if you're after someone and they're Justice-sitting then just be patient or ride in "kamikaze cowboy style". (Sidenote: if you use the term "kamikaze cowboy style," I want credit for that.)

2. Chaotic characters, like any other race/class/ethos/alignment/hometown choice, aren't for everybody. If you don't want to face the penalties associated with getting caught as a wanted criminal on a chaotic character, thus losing all of your wild equipment, then make a neutral character.

3. Chaotic characters were already slightly disadvantaged by the fact that they can't pay off wanted flags like other characters can. This was due to the fact that they had to have some form of trade-off for their sweet wild attacks and wild weapons. Obviously if you've fought someone with a wild weapon (or two), you've probably noticed that the attacks are great in the hands of a capable character. This is only the next logical step in the sequence of 'checks and balances' within the game.

Hopefully everybody will soon realize that this is in fact a great change, and not just some attempt to "power trip" the Justices or slam chaotic characters. It's actually a good change for the best.
_________________
Anybody need a U.S. Government book? I've got one for sale. Let me know. ISBN # 0-759-34943-6
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
 
0 0 0
Burzuk
Implementor


Joined: 20 Jan 2004
Posts: 530

PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2005 3:44 am    Post subject:

The real issue here is: because of time constraints, I didn't manage to introduce the chaotic changes and the lawful/Justice changes together. If both sets of changes had come hand-in-hand, it'd be easy to see that chaotics were facing some disadvantages against Justice in exchange for some rather lucrative perks: the two dozen or so new chaotic-only wild items; a similar number of existing items being made wild so that nobody else can use them; cheap Darkhaven gambles; easily buyable high-avg non-rare weapons in Darkhaven; and of course wild attacks as the most obvious perk. Likewise, lawfuls also actually have some Justice-related bonuses now instead of simply being screwed over if they happen to break a law in town. There are incentives and disincentives for both ethos extremes now.

As the 'help chaotic' helpfiles says, stick with neutral ethos if you'd rather not take the good AND the bad of being chaotic. In fact, I would also recommend the neutral ethos for most starting players since it keeps them out of this law vs chaos conflict.

Whether it's "worth it" to go chaotic or not is up to everyone to decide for themselves. Looking at how the vast majority of newly created characters in recent months have been overwhelmingly chaotic, it's obvious that most people recognize that there are significant gameplay advantages going for the chaotic route.

We had a discussion on the forum years ago about alignments, and the "ethos doesn't matter" complaint came up multiple times. Now, finally, it does.

On a final note: did you honestly believe that all the new stuff for chaotics were supposed to be freebies, forever? Why would we purposely promote any one align/ethos over another?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
 
0 0 0
RaisinBread



Joined: 26 Nov 2005
Posts: 15

PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2005 4:18 am    Post subject:

Sebryn wrote:


..snipped stuff about how powerful JUSTICE thinks they are ...

Justices, just like police officers in real life, have their own lives as well. They can't be expected to town-sit the entire time they're actively logged on; that would be a boring, monotonous, pointless character. Instead they watch town when necessary, and tend to their private lives when it's not. Expecting them to be in town all the time is absurd, and several times the more PK-oriented crowd have even wished that Justices would leave so that they could take care of a target or two.


So basically they are just a another type of thug. Roger that.

Sebryn wrote:

I always find it amusing when people complain about the Justices not being around, but then I see several of the same people whining when the Justices pop into town just when they choose to attack someone and end up getting flagged for it. You can't have your cake and eat it too; the best advice is to realize that Seringale is the ONLY area in the game (and there are SEVERAL areas) that Justices can actively protect people in, so use that knowledge to your benefit - on either the giving or receiving end of PK attempts.


Kay, so maybe you need to edit your purpose statement. I'm reading it as follows:

Quote:

Known as the Enforcers of Justice, these lawful individuals vow to protect the safety of those who seek shelter behind the secure walls of civilization, and bring justice to those whose rights have been violated. Acting as judge and executioner, their word is the law, and their decision shall be final. They hunt down criminals and prosecute them to the full extent of the Law in the name of Stryth and of Justice.


Seems to me a JUSTICE's sense of 'Justice' is really only dependent on #1: geographical boundaries, and #2: personal convenience (i.e. they have their 'own lives' as well).

When I was a noob, I was especially ticked at Justices because I assumed that they would care when I was mercilessly waylaid by a band of anonymous robbers.

Especially interesting is a particular conversation I had with a "Vhrael the Captain of the Seringale Watch", who (after a plea for help) told me that he couldn't always be bothered with mortal affairs.

Sebryn wrote:

1. Everybody seems to CONTINUOUSLY fail to keep in their minds the fact that Seringale is only ONE AREA. Yes, I'll admit, it's probably hands-down the most frequently travelled area in the game, but you can't play the game forever just sitting in Seringale (well, you could, but there'd be no point). Everybody has to leave sometime, so if you're after someone and they're Justice-sitting then just be patient or ride in "kamikaze cowboy style". (Sidenote: if you use the term "kamikaze cowboy style," I want credit for that.)


Again, a reafirmation of the geographical justice mindset.

Seems that Justices are just a different sort of thug. In game players are looking for a different place to gain any sort of security - and game enhancements like this, and the constant player complaint of insecurity in town (to me) seem to hint that they aren't really doing the job they claim.

Time to make a chaotic good character to come in and try to clean up town, or an evil character to at least put into practice the philosophy they publicly claim.

Wink
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
 
0 0 0
Davairus
Implementor


Joined: 16 Jan 2004
Posts: 8576
Location: 0x0000

PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2005 4:40 am    Post subject:

Yeah the Justices dont do a good enough job. They're human. We could have just programmed mobs to hunt down people who attack in Seringale and rape them. But its more fun if theyre human. If you think there is a need for Justices go ahead and join. Nobody is stopping you doing that.

I really want to know who the "thug" justices are. It looked like you were accusing Vhrael there, but Vhrael is the Justice "IMMORTAL", not a mortal, he isnt permitted to tamper with the law enforcers. Probably a good thing since he can just kill people in one hit. So who are the thug Justices ? I thought we had a nice bunch.
_________________
AR is on Twitter Facebook
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
 
0 0 0
RaisinBread



Joined: 26 Nov 2005
Posts: 15

PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2005 5:21 am    Post subject:

Davairus wrote:
Yeah the Justices dont do a good enough job. They're human. We could have just programmed mobs to hunt down people who attack in Seringale and rape them. But its more fun if theyre human. If you think there is a need for Justices go ahead and join. Nobody is stopping you doing that.


Um... take it easy. I don't really care if they don't do their job... its a game, and part of a story... you have to have bad guys, and sometimes the bad guys originally look like (or pretend to be) good guys.

Davairus wrote:
I really want to know who the "thug" justices are. It looked like you were accusing Vhrael there, but Vhrael is the Justice "IMMORTAL", not a mortal, he isnt permitted to tamper with the law enforcers. Probably a good thing since he can just kill people in one hit. So who are the thug Justices ? I thought we had a nice bunch.


So Seringale Watch is just that. Watching. Got it. Wink

Regardless of the sort of 'oh-yeah-proove-it' tenor of your post, I'll recall my last brush:

I don't remember names, but Cramen is one that comes to mind. My new little character had been murdered in the forest south of town. He was moping at south square, and when the Justices arrived, they shrugged him off. One of them let out a war cry, which always has something to do with the "Law", so my char yelled out something to the effect that they dont' do jack about the law.

Next thing I know I have 3 justices in my guildhall with me telling me I have a big mouth for such a little person. They poked him and peeked in the coffer before milling about ominously and leaving.

Yeah - he has a big mouth - but they just seem like thugs to me. Smile They seem to play the corrupted government/overtired public servant role well enough when my characters are in game.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
 
0 0 0
Davairus
Implementor


Joined: 16 Jan 2004
Posts: 8576
Location: 0x0000

PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2005 5:41 am    Post subject:

The Immortals don't interfere with gameplay. If you see a level > 50 it is Immortal and they can't do anything but watch. The Justice Laws are for Seringale, the city, not what happens south of town. There is a cabal which cares about safety for innocents everywhere - its the Knights of Valour.
_________________
AR is on Twitter Facebook
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
 
0 0 0
Sebryn



Joined: 16 Jan 2004
Posts: 1204

PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2005 5:47 am    Post subject:

RaisinBread wrote:
So basically they are just a another type of thug. Roger that.

No, but they can't be expected to sit in town 24/7, when things like their cabal being invaded and criminals running around outside of Seringale are going on.

RaisinBread wrote:
Kay, so maybe you need to edit your purpose statement. I'm reading it as follows:

Quote:
snip


Seems to me a JUSTICE's sense of 'Justice' is really only dependent on #1: geographical boundaries, and #2: personal convenience (i.e. they have their 'own lives' as well).

#1 - Seringale is the only area that is covered by HELP LAW, yes.
#2 - The Justices have a very clear-cut list of priorities, and "personal convenience" is the very bottom of it. Just ask Grimp.

RaisinBread wrote:
Especially interesting is a particular conversation I had with a "Vhrael the Captain of the Seringale Watch", who (after a plea for help) told me that he couldn't always be bothered with mortal affairs.

I believe what I said was that I "couldn't interfere" with mortal affairs, i.e. what Davairus said about Immortals not being able to help out mortals with things such as being attacked. The "Captain of the Seringale Watch" thing is just a restrung title... I apologize if it's misleading, but Vhrael can't flag people.

RaisinBread wrote:
Seems that Justices are just a different sort of thug. In game players are looking for a different place to gain any sort of security - and game enhancements like this, and the constant player complaint of insecurity in town (to me) seem to hint that they aren't really doing the job they claim.

Nonsense. People use Seringale (and the Justices there) to hide from "bullies" all the time, and it works. I don't know how many times I've seen people get flagged by an invisible Justice, or one that just returned to town from being off doing something else. The system works, and if it worked even better than it does you'd probably be complaining that the Justices were going flag-happy and killing everything in sight. Trust me, a few of 'em wouldn't mind that at all...

RaisinBread wrote:
Time to make a chaotic good character to come in and try to clean up town, or an evil character to at least put into practice the philosophy they publicly claim.

Go for it! I'm sure that it'd be a great change of pace for a lot of people in game.

If you truly feel that the Justices aren't doing their job, then send me a note in-game, in-character, with details on what exactly did or didn't happen. Otherwise I hope you're just venting about the change that you might or might not see as an attempt to balance the game.
_________________
Anybody need a U.S. Government book? I've got one for sale. Let me know. ISBN # 0-759-34943-6
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
 
0 0 0
Burzuk
Implementor


Joined: 20 Jan 2004
Posts: 530

PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2005 6:32 am    Post subject:

Two issues you need to keep in mind, RaisinBread:

1) Jurisdiction. You don't ask the Coast Guard to help you stop a robbery at the local gas station or ask a policeman to parachute into a foreign war zone, for instance, because that's outside their jurisdiction. Likewise for the Justice cabal, their jurisdiction currently only extends to Seringale, and that's it. There can be a pile of 500 corpses all one room south of Seringale and Justices won't call a single guard. Likewise, attack someone in Timaran and nobody cares, but walk one room into the Herald's Tavern to attack someone there and you'll be promptly barred and have bouncers summoned to boot you out, if there's a Herald around. We want to make these systems involve actual players and ultimately be fallible because that's what keeps things interesting.

2) Assistance. Justices do not exist to "help" anyone whatsoever; they exist to enforce and punish, period. They don't even welcome good-aligns into their cabal. The "help justice" helpfile says:

Code:
The mercy and compassion of those who follow the Light are viewed as taints upon impartial judgment, and Lightwalkers are barred from the ranks of Justice.


Now, with those two tenets in mind, you said that:

RaisinBread wrote:
My new little character had been murdered in the forest south of town. He was moping at south square, and when the Justices arrived, they shrugged him off.


Keeping in mind what I've said above, what would you have done as a Justice officer if you were in their shoes?

I think if you had run into a truly evil Justice SOB, he'd tell you to shove off before he buys a Legion contract on your life for wasting his time. As it stands though, you shot your mouth off at them and they only did the same thing back to you, so I don't really see anything out of the ordinary here. That is, unless you think that having a badge means that people are no longer entitled to respond in kind.

Your friendly neighborhood Justice officer does NOT "serve and protect" like modern-day policemen do. They're more like rent-a-cops, and Seringale is their mall -- except they'll continue to give chase even after you've left their premises. Whether that makes them "thugs" or merely overzealous about their duties depends on your personal view on the role of authority in life, and also depends quite a bit on whether you're on the giving or receiving end of things.

My view is that everyone should play a Justice char at some point in their AR career. It's an extremely valuable experience to have done for helping to broaden one's perspective.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
 
0 0 0
vncmetal



Joined: 16 Dec 2005
Posts: 12
Location: Vancouver, Wa

PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2005 6:37 am    Post subject:

RaisinBread wrote:
They seem to play the corrupted government/overtired public servant role well enough when my characters are in game.


Since Justices can't be lightwalkers, I really dig this idea. Evils should be evil, whether they are in charge of policing town or not.
_________________
Your kicked dirt misses the half-ogre.
You learn from your mistakes, and your dirt kicking skill improves.
You raise a level!! You gain: 14/67 hit points, 14/138 mana, 6/118 move, and 3 practices.
The half-ogre looks pretty hurt.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address
 
0 0 0
Kalist19
Emissary


Joined: 19 Jan 2004
Posts: 792

PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2005 7:49 am    Post subject:

Burzuk:
Quote:
I think if you had run into a truly evil Justice SOB, he'd tell you to shove off before he buys a Legion contract on your life for wasting his time.


That would be excellent if Justices were allowed that kind of elasticity in the way they can RP. From past experiences it seems that if a justice does anything at all that can be percieved as 'corrupt' or even if they have enough people complain about them, they are punished very harshly. Let me remember the way An Immortal put it: Justices are a cabal run and sanctioned by the Immortals themselves, and thus there is no room for percieved corruption (be it real corruption or just an appearance) or partial judgment. Basically, justices have no room for flexibility when it comes to public relations, or so a very high ranking Immortal believes.
_________________
<Kalist> how do you spend 1200 on a girl who's not naked
<insome> well....their clothing is like translucent
<insome> wait
<insome> who said girl


From Resatimm -- KALIST WTF YOU DONT NEED A FRICKING GIANT POSTER AS AN AVATAR JESUS.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address
 
0 0 0
Burzuk
Implementor


Joined: 20 Jan 2004
Posts: 530

PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2005 9:53 am    Post subject:

Do you mean that a Justice saying "quit wasting my time, we don't patrol the forests" is grounds for uninduction? Or that buying a Legion contract is grounds for uninduction? Which Justice has ever been booted for that?

I think you're mixing up "being evil" and "being corrupt". Being abrasive, being spiteful, being petty, being condescending, being gleeful at the suffering of others, and so on are all traits that any evil might exhibit, including Justices. Nobody can accuse you of being a bad Justice because you act as if you were superior to everyone else, for example, or if you mock or harangue criminals you've apprehend. What if your character really were that good at catching criminals? ***

On the other hand, being bribable, being conveniently opportunistic in one's whereabouts in the the face of duty, being willng to "make exceptions" or "reinterpret" the given laws in non-literal ways, pursuing certain criminals/intruders but completely ignoring certain others when they cross one's path, extorting people for "protection" -- these are examples of corruption that Justices of any alignment can portray. And that's grounds for being booted, period.

Take the classic example of "would you steal medicine to save your dying child": if you're a Justice and you choose to do so, you'd be "corrupting" your position of power even though your motivation may be the exact opposite of "evil".

The problem on AR has been Justices doing "corruption" things while trying to use "being evil" as a lame way to justify what amounts to dereliction of duty. If you spit at people, laugh when they die, give them directions that get them stuck in a noexit, gloat about how much you're going to enjoy the items you've confiscated, and so on, you're probably a pretty evil bastard but none of them are grounds for dismissal in and of themselves. However, if you tell someone they better pay you or else you'll flag them -- even if it's raising money to save your own dying child -- that's being corrupt and you will get booted for that, full stop.

Basically, being an evil Justice doesn't mean you can do whatever you want in the name of Justice, even if that "whatever you want" happens to be something traditionally evil. If you do, you're falling into the "ends justify the means" mentality of neutral evil or even the "might makes right" mentality of chaotic evil. Being lawful evil is about using the system to screw people over, rather than undermining the system by failing to uphold its requirements.

Or, people need to quit fucking up with evil Justices and trying to claim they were just "RP'ing being corrupt" when they're caught red-handed, since it just leads to my "RP'ing being a wronged and wrathful god". Fair's fair.

*** One of my all-time favorite AR moments was when a rather naive goodie asked a Justice shaman I was playing to show him the way to a certain place. (Shadar Logoth? I forget.) I answered by beckoning for him to follow, then promptly led him straight into the noexit spider web in Haon Dor and PK'd him. He then complained, "You're not allowed to do that! You're a Justice!" Yeah, and I was also a rather evil shaman, and being a tourist guide to goodies wasn't on my list of Justice duties, bucko. (Incidentally, Aberdour had been snooping my mortal -- my mortals were always being snooped by other Imms since apparently I must've been hiding some super-secrets to playing mortals or something -- and immediately wizvised next to me afterwards, right in the middle of town, and started talking to me OOC about how much fun he had snooping that kill and how pissed the other player must've been. Uh, thanks. They never make it easy for me to stay in-character.) So anyhow, that's my personal example of one of many ways to play a non-corrupt evil Justice: pretend to perform a favor that's clearly unrelated to your Justice duties (do so non-verbally as I did so they can't even accuse you of lying), then backstab them. Corrupt? No. Evil? Yes, oh yes.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
 
0 0 0
Phostan
Immortal


Joined: 08 Mar 2004
Posts: 295

PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2005 9:57 am    Post subject:

Let's see.
Heralds- Just don't want anyone fighting in their joint. It's a small place, not much you can do there but rp. Not thugs, but nothing terribly helpful either.
Legion - They want you to pay them constantly over and over in exchange for them not killing you, and they'll try to kill someone who kills you, big deal. THEY are thugs.
Warlords - They don't have a hang out joint. They don't care about you. Whatever.
Knights - You basically have to be a good align or a neutral getting jumped by an evil to get any sympathy from them, and asides from the lame little flag that nobles and knights can hand out, they cant really do much to save you.
Justice - Now you have a group of people, who will not only discourage other people from attacking you, but will hunt down ANYONE who attacks you, and kill them. How many wanted people hit 50 while wanted? Not many, maybe one or two, but a wanted flag is an inevitable death sentence. And they'll watch the pit for you if you die somewhere so no one steals your stuff. And if you get jumped and run to town, they'll usually come and sit with you in town if you ask nicely enough. Aaaand what do they ask of anyone? Nadda. And who doesn't fall under their protection? Vamps, outlaws, bountied and wanted people. So even if you're chaotic evil, and have been wanted 15 times, they'll still protect you if you get attacked. For free. And they're not even allowed to RP being slightly corrupt anymore. I mean, I hate having them in town when I want to pk someone, but I'd never call them thugs. Giant f'ing obstacles, yes. Thugs? No. And if they were around all the time I'd pull my hair out, so I'm happy with the occassional few hours a day of town being protected. Anymore then that, I'd go insane. The Imms are right, it's a good system because it has flaws, because the flaws let people get away with things every now and then to make it interesting.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
 
0 0 0
Kalist19
Emissary


Joined: 19 Jan 2004
Posts: 792

PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2005 11:43 am    Post subject:

I have to apologize Burzuk, I wasn't specific enough in my last post. When I talk about 'percieved corruption' that means that the justice's rp is possibly to be an evil bastard who brags and gloats and appears to be working above/outside the law when he is actually breaking no rules (ie: not charging people for protection in town, not taking bribes, not letting crimminals go, etc). According to the high up Immortal, if a justice even 'looks' like he is doing anything that could be regarded as corrupt it is grounds for immediate dismissal (Note that the justice has broken no cabal rules or guidelines).

Now a justice telling a person they will contract them could be seen as corrupt (it is a stretch, but apparently even a stretch is grounds for dismissal). I presume it is well known that justice and legion do not like eachother. If a Legion is on and there is a contracted person on, the Legion has to kill them. Now let's say a justice contracts Joe and there are 5 legions on. The justice threatened Joe, and Joe thinks he might be contracted so instead of running around he just sits in town with the justice. Now Legion have 5 people on and Joe is contracted - they cant sit by and let him live. Joe won't leave town, so Legion attack him and kill him.

The justice just indirectly provoked an attack within town. It's not hard to see how that could be seen as corruption, since the last thing a justice should EVER want is an attack in town. I admit it is a stretch, but if Joe fervently complains to the Immortals and if it happens on more than one occasion (ie: have more than 1 person complain to the Immortals) I am willing to bet that the justice would be booted, if not worse.

I guess I'm just trying to point out that Justice have a very strict rp core. They can deviate from that, in being mean to people, or in being indifferent or nice but if they are going for 'mean' they had better watch their step, because one 'percieved' mistake can cost them dearly.
_________________
<Kalist> how do you spend 1200 on a girl who's not naked
<insome> well....their clothing is like translucent
<insome> wait
<insome> who said girl


From Resatimm -- KALIST WTF YOU DONT NEED A FRICKING GIANT POSTER AS AN AVATAR JESUS.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address
 
0 0 0
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Abandoned Realms Forum Index -> Updates All times are GMT
Goto page 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2002 phpBB Group