Knights

[Kessor Natul]

So, been scanning over everything lately and have been counting who could not join cabals...I got to healers...? Kinda curious as to why they cannot join the knight OR justice cabal..... Maybe this goes in the ask an imm section, but I dunno... oh well.

[Vhrael]

Can't join Knights because: doesn't make much sense to devote your life to curing and healing people, only to turn around and slaughter them senselessly. Figure that out.

Can't join Justices because: Justice doesn't allow any good-aligned characters. The rationale is that good-aligned characters would constantly have their consciences to check them, which wouldn't allow them to do their job thoroughly (example: You're a goodie elf healer Justice, and a Knight that's wanted logs on, maybe a goodie elf paladin. Doesn't make much gameplay sense to have two goodie elves fighting it out over laws, does it? When one dies and the other gets damnation for it, there's not much to justify that.).

Hopefully that's clarified.

[Kedaleam]

I understand healers, personally... But why is it Illusionist cant? Thought I would throw that one out there.

[Nakachi]

Illusionists can join legion, or were you referring to Justice?

[Vhrael]

[Erlwith]

okay but can you pleeeeease bring back doppelganger?

[marsd]

Illusionists are the masters of illusion and deceit, that's not very knightly/justicey like are they..?

[Kedaleam]

Vhrael... I get what you say for Justice
And Marsd... I get what you say for Knights... Which was the one I was aiming towards. Just thought I would ask since the discussion was kinda up and all. And I suppose illusion/deceit thing makes sense and all. Thanks both of ya... Wish I coulda been more exact, but got more than enough info so thats great!

[marsd]

Haha, it's ok, there was kinda a query when they barred illus in last time and that was the reason I was given.

[Devin_Smoth]

[The Zealot]

I understand that there are both RP and gameplay reasons for the exclusion of Illusionists from Justices -- although with ensnare now trapping the justice as well, some of the raw cheese of justice ills would have been nullified. In terms of RP, it makes sense that they cannot join, given that every class-set has its conceptually 'chaotic' class (berserkers, illusionists and druids, apparently).

However, given the inclusion of Ninjas in Knights, it seems that there is less of an RP-based case to make against Illusionists there. Ninjas - in fact, rogues as a whole - are often chaotic, and survive by trickery (decoy, hide, vanish, invisibility etc.). The ninja's hiding in the shadows does not necessarily seem to conform to the strict honour codes of the Knights. This group, almost as much as Justice, I think, should be high visibility, acting as a deterant for evils and figureheads for valourians. Ninjas seem unable to do this, since they are masters of...well, ganking. The point I'm trying to make is that I'm finding it hard to reconcile ninja knights, if illusionists are not allowed in.

In the original discussion on this topic that I found in the past posts, the ostensible RP reasons for their not being allowed entry were really a cover for some important gameplay factors. IIRC, it was as much an argument about how over-powered stallions were (extra defense, extra damage, unlimited moves) - which allowed illusionist to tank like warriors. Given the 'rebalancing' of stallions, the changes to gate and group gate, and even the penalties associated with wording in combat, do the gameplay issues still stand?

[Faelon]

Surfing through and found this one, thought I'd throw in my long lost two cents.

"Calling down blessings and prayers with one hand, while smiting the vile creatures of darkness with the other..." or something like that. Healers (Clerics), I believe, stand the largest gain by fighting the darkness. Besides which, in a PK/RP mud, based entirely off of the concept that Healers aren't allowed in Knights because it isn't right for them to fight, means they lack a reason to be apart of a PK oriented mud. After all, PK first in Abandoned Realms, than RP.

[Davairus]

Current healer's offense is only geared strongly vs undead, not all evils. This makes them balancers of vamps in a way - vamps aer restricted from cabals with additional strengths to make up for that lost option, but have to succumb to mediocre-looking healers due to their skills being ugly vs undead. Its got too narrow a focus for the wider-scoped Knight cabal. Much different to shaman Legions with their causes and vast array of sweet mals. We'll see how things look after the religion modules.


And also.. I'll wait til "group gate" goes before we introduce illusionists into Knights again. Cabals really expose balance issues.. it causes too much irritation, and inevitably, other things get blamed for the problems that illusionists are causing. They're just trouble.

[Vertas]

[m1co]

Make a goddamn ninja and flipkick everyone, wtf u need a healer 4?