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The event "The Assault on Taekir" is beginning in 19 hours, 14 mins.

New concept: "Wielding" lags
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Davairus
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Joined: 16 Jan 2004
Posts: 10344
Location: 0x0000

PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2007 4:44 am    Post subject:

Okay I've just repealed the flying vs murder lags completely for the time being, as it has a serious snag which I'll cover now.

The underlying problems attempted to fix was basically:
* flee murders gimp invokers, rogues and healers fairly badly
* flying giant/dwarf warriors being able to run around forever and spam quaff recall potions also
(the inevitable conclusion of this was warrior that go for the uber-damroll no saves flee-murder kill and get away with a recall when it doesn work, rinsed and repeated)

The new problems attemped successfully to avoided were:
* not screwing over avians
* ensuring rogues are still ok to fly (should have been alright since dirt rubs out fairly soon, and along with wield lags helping them evade hobble, they still look decent while flying)

The new problems caused were:
* really easy running away for flying guys (especially healer type), could be fixed by just starting fight with something else, and/or me lowering the amount of lag a little, would be avoided by best players though
* rescue lag - this was where the thing mainly breaks down, because we have one crew saying mage need these to live against WTF situations, and others that say this is just gay cheese with lags now

So in a nutshell we can't go with this until we've done something about rescue, which is a pity, and I don't have anything I feel is suitable for that yet. Especially with me being in the "mages really need that rescue to stand a chance sometimes" camp. If you have decent suggestions we can probably give this another shot. Til we get this problem fixed, the Keepers are definitely staying mothballed, sadly.
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Xerties



Joined: 24 Feb 2006
Posts: 484

PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2007 10:35 am    Post subject:

I think this was a step in the right direction. Magi, especially Invokers, are far outclassed by fighters. The fly lag helped even this out a little, but it wasn't a total solution, and it caused some problems with ills and necros.

From what I understand, fighters (warriors and zerkers) don't completely own necros (necros' shit doesn't fade, so they can eat the problems after first logon), and they aren't horrible against illus (Illus can be caught unawares, but they can flee;word;gate and be sortof safe).

So really the only mage class getting really hammered by fighters are Invokers, and the only time that's a huge problem is with high damroll fighters. That means to me that the solution to this is make Invoker spells more dependent on SVS. If a fighter comes up against an Invoker with 50 damroll but -5 SVSaff they're going to eat ***DEVASTATES*** through sanc on average (right now anybody with little/no svsaff will get hit with MANGLE on average). If they sacrifice some of their damroll for SVS they can lessen that quite a bit.

I'm sure people will disagree, but that's my opinion.
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Davairus
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2007 4:42 pm    Post subject:

That doesnt do anything for rogues and healers.
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Davairus
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Joined: 16 Jan 2004
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2007 6:41 pm    Post subject:

Ok we're up and running with this again. Lowered the lag a tad to help ensure it doesnt make chasing too difficult. Most importantly, rescue was changed. If you rescue yourself with a pet, it will lag you two rounds, instead of one round. This is consistent with other pet commands - if you order the command, you recieve its full lag. Obviously that was already extremely abuseable with missed dirts, hobbles, etc, this problem here just helps us to see it more easily.

I'm going to compile the changes in this thread into a single post now that the dust has settled, to save new visitors having to read the whole thread.
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kento
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Joined: 03 Nov 2004
Posts: 338

PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2007 3:05 pm    Post subject:

so does that mean like keepers are somewhat less mothballed now? Haha.
Or are you still going to have to change this alot more?
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Davairus
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2007 11:16 pm    Post subject:

Umm.. don't fall into the trap of getting confused by "all the new changes". That isn't what's happened at all. All that we've done really, is:

A) add some wielding lag to make the game more playeable (for overhead/hobble/etc)
B) flee-murder counters, just aimed toward classes that really needed the relief
C) changing up whatever needed to be changed up to keep the game balanced in the aftermath of A and B

That's really all I'm doing. I don't want to alienate people from the game, just make it more playeable.

I could have just giving everyone 50 freedamroll, and then set about balancing the game for that, and I'd be able to do it fairly easy by just boosting hp and spell damage. But this is a little more involved.


Keeper's is out whenever we get general consensus the game is balanced. For instance, I dont mind to see people bitching a class has stuff overpowered, but then I'm waiting to see other people coming in and saying that persons class has something else overpowered and/or something weak, and that sort of thing also occuring with all the classes in the game. Basically people just bitching about the strengths and weaknesses of ALL classes, instead of all the people bitching about the same class. Since you guys dont really complain publically enough, it'll probably depend on me watching.

The reason I am waiting is because I dont want to see a new cabal fill up with just warriors, I want to see a diverse variety of classes in that. Variety is the spice of life. I dont want to hear "rogues suck too much in cabals so I'm not doing that" for instance. Remember, a neutral cabal can't even have clerics right now, so its very important that classes can do well by themselves, especially since nobody wants to make invokers except xerties.
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