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The event "The Assault on Taekir" is beginning in 13 hours, 49 mins.

AR's mindset/atmosphere
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Do you prefer...
everything to be much more bloodthirsty and harsh even if it makes for "unfair" pk situations?
12%
 12%  [ 3 ]
people to be more respectful of each other (i.e. fighting on even odds, no trash multikilling, etc.)?
45%
 45%  [ 11 ]
perpetuating a harsh environment until your opponent earns your respect?
12%
 12%  [ 3 ]
things to stay as they are?
29%
 29%  [ 7 ]
Total Votes : 24

Author Message
Vanisse
Immortal


Joined: 06 Jan 2006
Posts: 2793
Location: inside a tree

PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 12:16 pm    Post subject: AR's mindset/atmosphere

A lot of you have been voicing your wishes for something to change about Abandoned Realms. I'm curious to see the distribution of the playerbase on the previous question, because the atmosphere in AR is crucial to everyone's enjoyment of the game.
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Erlwith



Joined: 22 Mar 2006
Posts: 1626

PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 1:29 pm    Post subject:

[ramble...]
Things are pretty good imo. We definitely need more cabal leaders. Look at how it affects the activity of cabals. People are more likely to log in or apply to the cabals with active leaders. I know at times it can be hard to find good leaders for cabals, but without them cabals just fade and die. I'd say one active leader is better than a fully active cabal without one any day because there's little new blood and no promotions so people get bored. Look at the cabals that have/had Leaders recently. Knights, Legion and Keepers all are/were active. If Kavere was a little more active there'd be a lot more Knights, too. I think players like it a lot better when their organizations are run by mortals (inductions, promotions, etc.) than assuming it is run by an Imm and not knowing when or even if that imm is going to show up and induct them, or deny them while staying invis and never saying a word.

The same goes with other groups. A head Mystique, Herald and even Noble would breathe new life into these coteries and add a long dormant dynamic to the realm. A lead Vampire would also be great to keep at least a couple of active Vampires in the realm. This increases player interaction and player fun, and it takes out the element of the aloof imm you must blindly strive to impress. PKing as an unaffiliated character gets plain old after a while. In my experience players like a community to be part of within a game, maybe larger in game communities would cut down on all the OOC grouping, etc. that's going on now because you don't have to worry so much about logging on to 4-1 odds. I also find that the more people in a cabal/coterie the more people they attract and keep.

Also, the OOC between chars is annoying, I guess that's obvious. I wonder how m1co knew the identity of the major cabal players before any logs were posted or any strings were started(i partly blame #spoon)? When a player with 2 hours all month just so happens to log in whenever their cabalmate is in deep trouble it makes others want to play unfairly too, if just to even the odds, and the circle continues.


Some RP would be nice too, on a grand scale. You can only invade the same few cabals so many times before things start to get a little dull. Even if an imm lights a fire under a new RP and lets the mortals take it from there.



[/ramble]
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Dispater



Joined: 11 Feb 2008
Posts: 780
Location: Far side of the internet!

PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 2:52 pm    Post subject:

Every player plays with their own style, with their own perks and ways. After encountering these players on different characters, you learn of how to recognize their new spawnlings with an ease. With current low pbase, it is fairly easy to recognize anyone. Either by reading their profile on /players section or interacting with them. I'm a good profiler!
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Vanisse
Immortal


Joined: 06 Jan 2006
Posts: 2793
Location: inside a tree

PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 7:08 pm    Post subject:

Good points both of you. The poll is a bit narrow focused but this thread is open to any sort of constructive suggestion. I will see what I can contribute as an Imm to make more mortal-oriented roleplay opportunities as well.

Personally when I was playing morts I tended to keep away from ARchat so that I wouldn't perform OOC actions. After we introduced forums and logboards where people reveal who's playing who, that OOC knowledge seems to have started detracting from the RP-intensive atmosphere I used to feel when I logged in. I prefer to communicate with characters entirely separately instead of wondering who's playing what characters. (obviously now as an Imm I'm not entitled to that luxury, but most of you are, enjoy it!) That aspect makes roleplaying a lot more entertaining and also helps to deter roleplay breaks (treating people who talk about "wandering minds" as having some sort of mental disease, for example, perfectly good RP imo) which makes things fun for you and lessens the load on immortals so they can do the fun things like cabal interaction and chatting at North Square.

Did any of you read The Immortals series by Tamora Pierce? (I haven't read other fantasy novels that I can recall since I haven't been reading them for years, probably you can think of others that are similar.) The gods in there each controlled a nation and kind of sat up there rolling dice betting on which nation would win while they went to war. Or one brother would be angry at another brother and manipulate their nations into going into war. That sort of thing could potentially be integrated into AR as well, if we have more visible Imms. Or some random uncaballeds could be entirely anti-cabal (some people had this in mind previously, not sure how it's fared since then), etc. etc.

Bounce some more ideas at me, this is great.
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Garion



Joined: 09 Nov 2004
Posts: 174

PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 8:27 pm    Post subject:

More Cabal leaders would be good. Setting up events for uncaballed, and caballed alike. Maybe randomly throwing in events like an invasion here or there, New things for people to do along with the Pking, even if it will only be a short phase could liven things up.
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Faelon
Emissary


Joined: 23 Feb 2006
Posts: 938
Location: Your moms house.

PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 8:58 pm    Post subject:

I do remember a time when Knights had a quest all their own, when we figured it out they relabeled a few weapons for us. While it is a small reward, it is still a cool feeling and makes your character look pretty bad-ass to have a weapon no one has seen before. I agree with the whole 'quest' thing; Hell, Fells were absolutely awesome. Difficult, probably, to code perhaps, but fucking cool none the less.
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Arishel



Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 417
Location: Alpharetta, Ga.

PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 9:52 pm    Post subject:

I like the idea about the invasions, maybe one day/night during the week you could implement a random attack on a random city. If it's Darkhaven, it could be Holy crusaders attacking, if it's Valour, it could be Demons and Wraiths attacking, if Timaran it could be Palace Guardians from Gasteride attacking want all the rares back taken from those darn keepers. If it's Seringale, it could be an army of Mountain bandits led by pirates from Ronus' ship. Or you could just skip over all of that and have the five dragons run rampent on the cities. Flying to each one in an instant that would make the whole of Thera interact as one giant team to take out the threat.
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Vertas



Joined: 17 Jan 2004
Posts: 1168
Location: Ewa Beach, HI

PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 10:36 pm    Post subject:

Garion wrote:
More Cabal leaders would be good. Setting up events for uncaballed, and caballed alike. Maybe randomly throwing in events like an invasion here or there, New things for people to do along with the Pking, even if it will only be a short phase could liven things up.



I've been trying to sorta start one but i get the feeling it pisses dav off that i came up with an idea...Good or bad.
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Arishel



Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 417
Location: Alpharetta, Ga.

PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 11:37 pm    Post subject:

Been there done that. Their's nothing saying you can't start your own sect, but as you probably know that you'll have to do it without the aid of Immortals. Meaning it's not going to be a cabal, no item, etc. If anything I think it is strongly suggested, it will help create a new view of things. Basically if you can have a group/order/sect/company and keep track of it, more power to you. I like the ideas coming out here, good stuff, good stuff.
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Kalist19
Emissary


Joined: 19 Jan 2004
Posts: 1153

PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 8:04 am    Post subject:

Vanisse I like what you hit on there. I absolutely love the notion of going into battle to serve my god. I remember that as a new player I used to get really really excited whenever an Immortal spoke to me (outside of deep-shit of course). The feeling of someone so important and powerful talking to you personally when you are just a crummy little mortal is awesome. Especially when that Immortal that you respect and fear so much sets you out on a task or is at war with another Immortal.

I think Immortal influence makes AR more fun. I don't necessarily mean that all the Imms should sit at north square. Quite the contrary. Immortals lose a degree of their awe-inspiring affect if they are just sitting around twiddling their thumbs. It'd rather see an evil Immortal pick two people in the same pk range and tell them to fight for a great reward (the reward is optional since evil Immortals can lie all they want) or a herald Immortal ask some random person in the realms for a word that rhymes with 'bucket'.

Immortal interaction can be something as simple as an Immortal of your alignment showing up in your ranking area to find out how your grinding for three hours has been going, and to commend you for a job well done slaughtering gnolls or whatnot.

All this stuff is fine and dandy but the stuff that really gets your blood rushing is when your cabal Immortal is really intense and has a fierce rivalry with another cabal Immortal. I.e. Legion Immortal hates Justice Immortal with a passion so he orders his guys to kill justices on sight by any means possible. Justice Immortal is overmatched so he seeks help from Knight Immortal. Knight Immortal orders his troops to raid the Legion. Keepers see that it's 2v1 so they join Legion to restore the balance. Stuff like this is such good rp and can snowball very fast. Each cabal character would be in a huge war and each would be really driven to battle because by doing so they are directly gaining their God's favour.

Nothing wrong with cabals having a really aggressive tone.
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Vanisse
Immortal


Joined: 06 Jan 2006
Posts: 2793
Location: inside a tree

PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 5:37 pm    Post subject:

I agree. It's a lot more fun to roleplay and be creative, which is why I personally got addicted to AR, rather than sit around enforcing rules from behind the scenes, which just feels like work. (Dav might not be so grumpy if he didn't do the latter 99% of the time he spends here.) Now we just need more imms than Vevier and me to be visible for extended periods of time. Or if there isn't one imm available for each cabal/organization, there could be one visible evil, one visible neutral, and one visible lightwalker immortal who could each influence the cabals that are affiliated with them. It's unfortunate that Groq decided that he is taking a leave of absence because his presence would have contributed much to this idea.
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Kalist19
Emissary


Joined: 19 Jan 2004
Posts: 1153

PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 7:07 pm    Post subject:

You honestly don't even need a cabal Immortal if the Mortal leader is strong enough since they can induct/uninduct/promote/demote/note to all/etc. Maybe more Imms should play mortals. There are a few that pride themselves on their pk ability so why not roll one and throw into the mix? That would be more fun that pip/jeo/slade running around killing eachother for the hundredth time on a different character (or in pip's case, dying for the hundredth time on a different character). If I was a cabal Imm I'd have a mortal in my own cabal just to keep an eye on the other guys and to help further the cabal's interests.
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Groq
Immortal


Joined: 13 Jan 2006
Posts: 500
Location: Downstate NY

PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 8:43 pm    Post subject:

Well I did that and got shit for it cuz I helped legion among everyone else.. so yeah imms making morts goes over like a fart in church.. remember pirates?
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Vanisse
Immortal


Joined: 06 Jan 2006
Posts: 2793
Location: inside a tree

PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 9:24 pm    Post subject:

Of the active ones I know all of them minus me play/played morts. So uh, that's already happening.

I haven't played one for awhile since I have too much work to do both in-game and out of it and would rather be around to oversee things constructively for AR in the time I do have for this game than giggle on a drunk gnome bard. And you wouldn't want to fight me anyway, it would be one facepalm moment after another. Wink
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Groq
Immortal


Joined: 13 Jan 2006
Posts: 500
Location: Downstate NY

PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 10:51 pm    Post subject:

Last I knew out of the active imms.. shit that leaves me so yeah been there done that. Any of the others I don't think have had morts in a while and if they did they haven't done well with them I would guess.
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Vanisse
Immortal


Joined: 06 Jan 2006
Posts: 2793
Location: inside a tree

PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 11:16 pm    Post subject:

I am thinking 3 out of 4 people on my "active imm" list. And that includes Groq in the 3, since he still is. Whether or not they have been PKing actively is an issue I am not addressing since everyone has their own playing preferences. Then again I consider a quietly well-roleplayed character at least good as an in-your-face one with "leet pk skillz."
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Resatimm
Takes the Cake


Joined: 23 Jan 2004
Posts: 980

PostPosted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 3:39 am    Post subject:

I pulled a John Elway. Retired at the top! Can you imagine how much I would get pwned these days? Fast typing and no triggers doesnt win you much anymore.


I wonder if I am less active than Burzuk.
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Kalist19
Emissary


Joined: 19 Jan 2004
Posts: 1153

PostPosted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 4:03 pm    Post subject:

What the hell is a trigger? Macros ftw
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Erlwith



Joined: 22 Mar 2006
Posts: 1626

PostPosted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 7:33 pm    Post subject:

No matter who was in the wrong on the string 'A Better Idea for Increasing the Playerbase', that whole recent line of posts is a perfect example of what's wrong with AR and why no one wants to play. Players blame staff, staff blame players, no one takes accountability for being the way they are and just passes the buck for the lack of a player base and 'fun' onto someone else.

We should all like each other at least for the most part, the staff should like the players and the players should like the staff. When none of the above is true or very little of it is true, people don't want to play. People join MUDs for the community, not to PK or exp or get cool items, because if that was the case they could just play a 1 player game and not have to sift through dumb strings like the one I mentioned before, or go play counterstrike. When the head of the game is blaming it's poor state on all the players and the players are blaming the poor state on the imp changes or attitude it doesn't show much of a community for anyone else to want to join. I understand after years in a game you become disgruntled as both players and imms, even jaded, but that just means it is time for a break... not time to put the game in a worse state by causing wild turmoil Twisted Evil and alienating anyone possible in the process.

Anyway, I know I'm as guilty as anyone else and I think we can all brighten up our attitude at the least. So I think now is as good a time as any to make a change in our attitudes and our outlooks of the game and try to breathe new life into the game by making everyone feel welcome (even if they have a sucky Legion record) and implementing fresh ideas.

I hope that some of you agree with me and that we can make this game a better place for everyone else who wants to play, vet or newbie.
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Baer



Joined: 22 Jan 2004
Posts: 618
Location: Michigan

PostPosted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 8:30 pm    Post subject:

Largely, I think the current situation is because the character in question wasn't given an opportunity to defend himself/refute in game. He was brought on, uninducted, then logged off by an Imp.

That being said, cabals are always going to have some OOC elements, however hard you try. The playerbase is not big enough for it to be any other way. Coupled with an Immortal approved, if not sanctioned MIRC channel, a forum with little to no moderation, and a logboard that invariably devolves into a large "My toon owns your toons face" fight, the atmosphere is too ingrained to just expect it to change overnight.

Besides, even if you do everything legitimately and by the book, there will still be accusations of OOC. Trust me on this, I've experienced it.

With that said, I'm not saying I approve or even like the oftentimes blatant connections made at level 1, but even when people try to do everything on the low, by the book, with no ooc help at all, invariably it will all come down to coincidence and most people having easily recognized playstyles. Case in point, I made a character the other day, and within twenty minutes, I had two different im's from people asking what the hell I was doing playing that race/class combo. Maybe that's my fault for generally going with the gimp and underated, but patterns are easily identifiable when we have a playerbase built up largely of veterans who have been playing with each other for years.

To get to the meat and potatoes of this post, though. The main problem right now, is a lack of communication. Everything has sort of been shoved at Vanisse with a little note saying "Deal with this". She's just one person, and while I respect her and think she's doing a bang up job, sorting out the cabal bullshit right now is definitly not a job for just one person.

*edited for typos, I'm sure I missed a few*
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