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The event "The Assault on Taekir" is beginning in 1 day, 3 hours.

hp/mana/move train change
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Davairus
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Joined: 16 Jan 2004
Posts: 10344
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2009 7:06 am    Post subject: hp/mana/move train change

old:
1 train = 10 hp/20 mana/40 mv

new:
1 train = 10 hp/15 mana/20 mv

This was supposed to go in with the various weapon tweaks I did a while back and I forgot about it, and I've kept on putting it off for one reason or another. Obviously there is the problem of legacy characters that already trained moves having an advantage over new characters, in the short-term. That concerns me, but looking at the recent deletes, I don't think this change is going to rub that particularly raw right now. Also, I often look at the players list on the website, and I recognise barely anybody after just a month or two, which tells me that delete turnover is quick enough to phase most legacy characters out. Sooo.. with the new year, and a bit of coloured discussion to get me motivated, in it jolly well goes now.

repercussions - obviously the buff mana train has been well-recieved by shamans and healers, and that'll be trimmed back a bit. Shamans will need to be more careful with their trains, especially low wis ones that have to conserve trains to be able to practice everything. Also the warriors and berserkers, who I've seen remarked frequently are basically playing like mages with infinite movement, they have their potential cut back dramatically by this. Recalling really devastates movement, tradtionally. There are abilities in game that reduce moves that will be better than before, and that may be an issue down the road, but afaik they were designed with the intent of operating on reduced trains, and its something that we just postponed for too long. I think we'll agree the old numbers were way too much, and we've had it too good for way too long. Whether to save your limited trains for con or spend them into stats needs to be a tougher choice. Unfortunately this isn't something to pwipe over just to fix, and I ask you to just bear any hardship for a while.
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RebornShadows



Joined: 21 Nov 2008
Posts: 272
Location: Where ever my feet take me

PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2009 7:40 am    Post subject:

nice change man hp stays the same thats pretty cool. the mana thing not much of a cut back unless you add all of it up.5 trains in mana old =100 mana right there and now with the new system it =75 along with the reduce mv its a nice add really fucks up some classes but then again with the old they became kinda uber
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Davairus
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Joined: 16 Jan 2004
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2009 9:03 am    Post subject:

Well its way overdue, so I don't expect or want any props, but it is something that time has shown everyone really needed doing. We've known about that all along, though. There were supposed to be bigger scale changes going in at the same time that would soften the blow on casters, and those obviously haven't happened and likely won't in the foreseeable future. I don't want something as simple as this to be screwing up the game forever. Last thing I enjoy seeing on someones graveyard record is "sorry, 760 moves is cake to play" after all the work we've done on those classes. Hopefully the rest of the work will continue at some point.
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Slade
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Joined: 17 Mar 2004
Posts: 666

PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2009 9:36 am    Post subject:

Yep.......

Now just need to sneak a con point onto avians,

and for the hat trick a more radical update: Remove scrolls from clerics (and paladin if they have it - I forget). Create stave of flying (except paladin shouldn't be able to use this somehow), cost 3300 or so (or higher cost multiplied out to number of uses). Somewhat added cost for clerics to fly, and with the slight burden of actually wearing the thing to do it. The main intent however is nixing their use of medic scrolls.
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_Clifton_
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Joined: 08 Dec 2005
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Location: your and you're are not the same. they're, there, and their are not the same. learn to english.

PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2009 12:12 pm    Post subject:

Flying pots?
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Slade
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Joined: 17 Mar 2004
Posts: 666

PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2009 6:13 pm    Post subject:

Too expensive. Shamans still need it. A jump to 3K is an acceptable annoyance. 6K is overboard, leave that to the flying giant fighter dunces.
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Resatimm
Takes the Cake


Joined: 23 Jan 2004
Posts: 980

PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2009 7:30 pm    Post subject:

AHA! FINALLY! Now some of the items *I* have made over the years will have more uses! Movement bonuses!

I always liked the cloak that gave 100 mv, i cant remember which it was though. It was from an old area, and was rare, although no one ever used it.
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xanthas



Joined: 08 Feb 2004
Posts: 474
Location: Atlanta, GA

PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2009 7:51 pm    Post subject:

Resatimm wrote:
I always liked the cloak that gave 100 mv, i cant remember which it was though. It was from an old area, and was rare, although no one ever used it.


traveler's cloak?
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Kalist19
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Joined: 19 Jan 2004
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2009 7:51 pm    Post subject:

Cloak of Travel or Travelling Cloak or somethingrather from the Inn in darkhaven.
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Amdorin



Joined: 16 Jan 2004
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Location: No matter how much a failure, no life is worthless. You can always serve as a bad example.

PostPosted: Tue Jan 06, 2009 2:33 am    Post subject:

Cloak? I know of the frog's vest, but that's a torso.
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Mummy



Joined: 11 Sep 2006
Posts: 698
Location: Under Resatimm's Ass

PostPosted: Tue Jan 06, 2009 6:04 am    Post subject:

Kalist19 wrote:
Cloak of Travel or Travelling Cloak or somethingrather from the Inn in darkhaven.


I thought it was on the traveler in Demea...?
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Davairus
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Joined: 16 Jan 2004
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 06, 2009 6:29 am    Post subject:

Seems like a penalty on succesful scroll recitation for shamans is more along what you were looking for. You're not making sense saying there should be fly staves that paladins can't use. I am not sure why a shaman should needs scrolls beyond for taking flight anyways, they have a lot of spells to cover their needs.
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_Clifton_
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Location: your and you're are not the same. they're, there, and their are not the same. learn to english.

PostPosted: Tue Jan 06, 2009 11:51 am    Post subject:

It's a rare from the elves behind the trap door in the wyvern in. +100 moves to around body, but the items that you can wear around your body are much more necessary than around chest.
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Craginoth



Joined: 25 Jan 2004
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 06, 2009 2:44 pm    Post subject:

ha, i though he was talking about unmoving black cloak..
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Slade
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Joined: 17 Mar 2004
Posts: 666

PostPosted: Tue Jan 06, 2009 5:58 pm    Post subject:

Kind of, except that I don't know about a global penalty because while just a minor hit makes sense for shamans and their flight scrolls, that is just a side adjustment. The real intent here would be to cripple both healer and shaman potential use of medic scrolls.
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Erlwith



Joined: 22 Mar 2006
Posts: 1626

PostPosted: Tue Jan 06, 2009 6:38 pm    Post subject:

Just invade and take their item. taking their use of medic scrolls all together doesn't make sense to me. but while at it, let's cap berserker damroll at 40.
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Slade
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Joined: 17 Mar 2004
Posts: 666

PostPosted: Tue Jan 06, 2009 9:07 pm    Post subject:

That only works in a gangbang, or one on one against a scrub. A cleric has the staying power to fight off a knat while capturing an item, but others can have a harder time doing it against them. It is exactly those non-scrub clerics who don't need medic scrolls.
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Erlwith



Joined: 22 Mar 2006
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2009 5:12 pm    Post subject:

maybe im looking at things from the wrong angle. medic scrolls beef up any class. to me a drow dk used by a skilled player, moderately using unholy strength and a sack full of medic scrolls does more to unbalance things than a shaman with them any day. and if you think it difficult to get an item from a shaman, try getting it from that skilled dk when he confines you after you flee from his guardian.
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Davairus
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2009 8:11 pm    Post subject:

I guess I am a bit surprised to hear that shamans are managing to exploit medic scroll so successfuly. You would think they would just rely on their own healing spells instead of dropping gold on a weak cure available every other two ticks.
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Slade
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Joined: 17 Mar 2004
Posts: 666

PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2009 10:24 pm    Post subject:

....its available once per tick, is not weak, has a slightly lower lag time than casting the spell, and is for use *in combination* with the standard healing spells to recover from the mega hit/dam (or people like necro, etc.) beasts while avoiding a full drain of your mana pool which absolutely can happen.
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