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The event "The Assault on Taekir" is beginning in 1 day, 0 hour.

Some Keeper updates.
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Erlwith



Joined: 22 Mar 2006
Posts: 1626

PostPosted: Thu Jun 25, 2009 12:34 am    Post subject:

Class skills serve the purpose of balancing the classes in respect to other classes, so PvP can be balanced. Cabal skills serve the purpose of making the cabal more lucrative, and more importantly facilitating their cabal duties. Shamans have no duty but to kill whereas Keepers MUST fight Dangers.

Just to bring it all to a head, by your same logic Special guards would not be permanent because ranger pets aren't either. Or maybe necro just use a command to summon pets since legion can summon a pet with a command too?

Point is, cabal skills are not meant to be on the same level as class skills.
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_Clifton_
Emissary


Joined: 08 Dec 2005
Posts: 1405
Location: your and you're are not the same. they're, there, and their are not the same. learn to english.

PostPosted: Thu Jun 25, 2009 8:09 am    Post subject:

I can't believe you're still trying Erlwith. Why not just write them off as retarded and be done with it? If they're too fucking dumb to grasp the difference between a cabaled character and a non-cabaled character (and thus the respective skills), try to get them to bitch about how non-cabaled individuals should get access to defender potions as well instead. Stop trying to explaining shit to people who are obviously can't tell the difference between mud and feces. "Well they looked the same!"
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Faelon
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Joined: 23 Feb 2006
Posts: 938
Location: Your moms house.

PostPosted: Thu Jun 25, 2009 1:10 pm    Post subject:

Quote:
So both sets of skills do not in fact hinder/harm/enhance either the other player or ones person? Surely I am confused. Here I thought that they were both skills, granted by ones allegiance to various factions and how dedicated/powerful one is.



Quote:
Cabal skills serve the purpose of making the cabal more lucrative, and more importantly facilitating their cabal duties. ...
Point is, cabal skills are not meant to be on the same level as class skills.



Read slow. I am well aware that cabal powers are for those who are dedicated and powerful. ... ... Wait.. I think I said that.

In the case of special guards.. maybe we should just make them automatically pop up every time they walk in on a warranted individual. No lagged recast time.. right?

Ranger pets are permanent, so long as you follow the boundaries of being a ranger, i.e. in the forest. And you are mixing rp reasons with non rp reasons as far as the necro is concerned.
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Faelon
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Joined: 23 Feb 2006
Posts: 938
Location: Your moms house.

PostPosted: Thu Jun 25, 2009 1:30 pm    Post subject:

Sorry about the double post.

I don't know how I got sucked into an entirely different topic, but my point in my first statement was not the comparison between the two skills. That is irrelevant.

My point, slightly elongated because I would hate for there to be any confusion, is.. "Let us say there is a class called shaman. They are not that powerful and you can see some obvious difficulties in how they would fight, you even witnessed some while a shaman was fighting a warrior. You sit back, contemplate for a time, when suddenly it dawns on you! EGADS! Make deteriorate automatic. This will balance the Shamans, so that they actually have a fighting chance."

Chances that you would say any of the above are slim. So should it be in the case of the Keepers.
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_Clifton_
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Joined: 08 Dec 2005
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Location: your and you're are not the same. they're, there, and their are not the same. learn to english.

PostPosted: Thu Jun 25, 2009 1:37 pm    Post subject:

Keepers deal with balance. Keepers are forced to fight. And most of the time they're fighting overgeared opponents. Don't forget that atonement also scales with gear. But the biggest difference that you aren't acknowledging, thereby deteriorating your point, is that keeper are forced to fight. (Stated twice for emphasis). That's why a warrior doesn't get access to defenders but cabals do. That's why keepers will get a one time atone but shamans don't.
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Faelon
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Joined: 23 Feb 2006
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Location: Your moms house.

PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2009 1:10 pm    Post subject:

LOL! I don't know how much the point I am making is deteriorated, however, I will concede that point to you. It does make a difference that one is forced to fight, but the other is not. It still does not change the fact that this MUD attempts to keep a balance in all things and I believe my argument stands.

Time will tell in this. Just because atonement is auto, doesn't necessarily mean that they will automatically slap down on all competition. This could balance things nicely. Just like making any other skill auto for a class/race combo that is lamed, could balance the issue as well. It could also make Keepers impossibly tough. Whomever fights a keeper during the new changes should use these forums to let everyone else know how it felt/went for them.
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Arishel



Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 417
Location: Alpharetta, Ga.

PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2009 4:12 pm    Post subject:

When I fight a Keeper, I could care less about atonement, because the intensity of atonement is based off of how many rare/unique/randoms you have. If you have a crap load, then it should level the playing field, I agree. What my biggest problem is (again atonement not being part of it) the skill quick wield for rangers. I'm sure it's been brought to the attention of immortals before, so I'm not going to go into too much detail. Thing is they get quick wield & quick draw. Thieves I can understand having quick wield, but why rangers? Thieves don't have quick draw, but they have the bow skill. Maybe throw in warriors having quick wield since they are MASTERS OF ALL WEAPONS...again, it's a sore subject for me. If anyone has a valid argument about it, please make be a firm believer in thinking that rangers absolutely need quick wield. Yes, I do get beat down by rangers, so for all you guys saying that I'm just whining, I'm going to save your fingers a bit of typing. As I'm sure that most of you will reiterate that i'm whining. Anyway, I've said enough. Looks like I went WAY into detail....LOL
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rabidgecko



Joined: 16 Feb 2006
Posts: 194

PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2009 4:30 pm    Post subject:

Warriors and berserkers have something that rangers don't - combat skills. Give rangers hobble, sideswipe, and barrage, and they won't need quick wield. Quick wield gives rangers the option to stay in superior, even if they can't do anything once they are superior. Rangers don't have lags either, so no trip/bash to pin down the enemy, wounding shot is the only option and that's very easy to avoid. Rangers have a completely different play style from warriors, and quick wield is the basis of it.
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Arishel



Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 417
Location: Alpharetta, Ga.

PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2009 4:53 pm    Post subject:

I can live with that. Thanks for the info.
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_Clifton_
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Joined: 08 Dec 2005
Posts: 1405
Location: your and you're are not the same. they're, there, and their are not the same. learn to english.

PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2009 5:32 pm    Post subject:

I guess the other point to make for atonement is that opponents would just run and wait off atonement. Rinse, repeat, effectively making it a worthless and unusable skill. I don't think there is any other cabal skill that can be completely avoided like atonement. Now overgeared opponents don't have the option of dodging atonement so that they have a huge advantage in terms of gear, thereby accomplishing the original goal of the skill which was to balance out keepers vs opponents with much higher hit/dam.
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Slade
Emissary


Joined: 17 Mar 2004
Posts: 666

PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2009 10:33 pm    Post subject:

Eh? Ranger quick wield should only apply to bows. Does it work for all weapons?
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Faelon
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Joined: 23 Feb 2006
Posts: 938
Location: Your moms house.

PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2009 10:38 pm    Post subject:

Now that is actually logic I can follow. I hadn't thought to compare it to the rest of the Keepers skills/abilities. Which I am not even sure they have any or not.
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Thorgoth
Immortal


Joined: 16 Oct 2008
Posts: 727

PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 6:12 pm    Post subject:

Yeah they get quick wield too. I say take blind fighting away and they'd be balanced, since they rub dirt out quickly it will prevent them from changing weapons and make them more susceptible to damage, because right now I could make a ranger and drop people with 70-80% hp finishing and I still have an herb to pull because of enhanced dirt, quick wield ability and leet defenses with pets to hide behind...
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Amdorin



Joined: 16 Jan 2004
Posts: 829
Location: No matter how much a failure, no life is worthless. You can always serve as a bad example.

PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 7:24 pm    Post subject:

picpen wrote:
Yeah they get quick wield too. I say take blind fighting away and they'd be balanced, since they rub dirt out quickly it will prevent them from changing weapons and make them more susceptible to damage, because right now I could make a ranger and drop people with 70-80% hp finishing and I still have an herb to pull because of enhanced dirt, quick wield ability and leet defenses with pets to hide behind...


I wanna see I wanna see! Do it.
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rabidgecko



Joined: 16 Feb 2006
Posts: 194

PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 9:05 pm    Post subject:

It's very easy to run away from rangers... that is quite a balancing factor
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Thorgoth
Immortal


Joined: 16 Oct 2008
Posts: 727

PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 12:33 am    Post subject:

true, but what happens with lower dex races? you hit your head constantly with nothing to do. i found myself eating alot of quick death from intitiate dirt and spam head slam then raging to take out blindness just to get tamed and stunned - splat dead
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Slade
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Joined: 17 Mar 2004
Posts: 666

PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 1:24 am    Post subject:

Rangers don't have "enhanced dirt" or quick rubout - I would surprised if they had anything close even in a forest. Further, their quick wield should be and probably is only for bows. Not too long ago everyone was moaning about how it was impossible to kill a berserker with a ranger. Hysteria train flavor of the week, I guess.
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Davairus
Implementor


Joined: 16 Jan 2004
Posts: 10344
Location: 0x0000

PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 11:51 am    Post subject:

Rangers do not get quick wield or enhanced dirt kicking - dirt is just one bitch of a skill.
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Thorgoth
Immortal


Joined: 16 Oct 2008
Posts: 727

PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 12:06 pm    Post subject:

so why do i see in the logs of ranger changing weapons with only a 1 round lag? i also made one just to see and they do get the skill at level 19..must have been a woopsy but it's still there and still being used. maybe it's just me, but i figured since rangers are considered "rogue" then their dirt lasted longer..
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Thorgoth
Immortal


Joined: 16 Oct 2008
Posts: 727

PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 2:56 pm    Post subject:

oh and i think that atonement should be class based. say you are fighting a warrior, thus you get the -12 hit/dam, but if you are invoker you get -100 hp, necro should be -dam because of rend life instead of the current -12 hit/dam -100 hp duo.
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