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The event "The Assault on Taekir" is beginning in 12 hours, 4 mins.

Keepers (again)

 
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Davairus
Implementor


Joined: 16 Jan 2004
Posts: 10344
Location: 0x0000

PostPosted: Mon Aug 03, 2009 5:10 am    Post subject: Keepers (again)

Trying to get through Keepers now. Beginning to work in some of the things we talked about in the threads, but a lot of it was useless or lackluster.

The new version of danger flag rates items individually and makes it a simple case of checking "if its red, disarm them", with no quotas placed. You either have a noteworthy item they care about, or not. This makes a bit more sense from a neutral point of view - i.e. just caring about the items not the amount of them a player is hoarding .. also comes with its own flaws, but I haven't seen it either detect or ignore too many items I would have disagreed with the result. I'm waiting for feedback about strange behaviour for now. One of the weird sights I saw was the stetson not being catched as a powerful item, because of the +5 save spell. It actually has a giant drawback so it is a balanced item. But obviously it is still dangerous because of extremes. I might take a while to figure out what I want to do with items like that.

A set of new powers can come from the way that flag behaves and I will cater more suggestions since atonement hasn't been very popular, but since I've already had a lot, please don't post anymore unless they're really good ones.

Next up is the cabal and its shops. As Keepers swear off gambled and rare items they will require their own places to gamble at, and a few ok ave 20 weapons to get started. That is about it. I am providing some shops that will allow player to roll on defensive (hp/saves), offensive (hit/dam/malbreaks), and utility (stats) items. That looks like six shops so about 90 items to create in total. Then of course the shops. This is going to be started in next few days. I may or may not provide a forge for Keepers to imbue their special weapons at with the rare items they have captured.


Still to be talked about : - Keepers are going to get involved in the power swing between cabals. This is going to be represented by a balance in the cabal, probably a pendulum since historically that's what we've called it. So I'm looking for specifically the way to make this thing move and the things that Keepers should do about the pendulum when it is out of place. I'm a little tired of pendulums from physics classes so I may pick something else. There are other kinds of oscillators. Anyway, to spell it out simply:

Code:
[KNIGHT]

    Atyrdolm:  kills  8, deaths  5
       Gadlo:  kills  3, deaths  4
      Blyden:  kills  0, deaths  1
      Casden:  kills  0, deaths  1
      Mylang:  kills  0, deaths  2
       TOTAL:  kills 11, deaths 13 (efficiency 45%)

[LEGION]

       Gaarn:  kills 14, deaths  7
      Corzen:  kills  1, deaths  4
        Snod:  kills  3, deaths 10
      Nadrin:  kills  2, deaths  2
      Alisie:  kills  1, deaths  1
     Sarabio:  kills  0, deaths  1
       TOTAL:  kills 21, deaths 25 (efficiency 45%)

[JUSTICE]

      Vaelyn:  kills 10, deaths  1
     Cadarel:  kills  1, deaths  1
      Lajiin:  kills  2, deaths  4
      Gortan:  kills  0, deaths  2
       TOTAL:  kills 13, deaths  8 (efficiency 61%)


We take something *like* this (obviously this is not the ideal thing to do this with because this resets every month, and players delete etc), and we come up with some way to determine who is in front and who has the momentum. The momentum is really more dependent on the state of affairs at an instant whereas the pk stats show who's really winning. I'm pretty sure for example that if Legion is the most in front, but the momentum is on Knights, Keeper doesn't really need to be involved. So if say Knights are on and whacking a Legion 3 on 1, with Legion presently high stats, Keeper are going to sit that out. Otherwise Keepers influence the momentum to tip things back toward the neutral direction. Uh , anyway I'm throwing that out.
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Ergorion



Joined: 16 Mar 2007
Posts: 2156

PostPosted: Mon Aug 03, 2009 4:10 pm    Post subject:

Instead of atonement, or with it, I think we should consider Keepers having a scourge type skill that targets rare and unique equipment. The number of rares that get tossed away (tossed to the Keeper of Artifacts perhaps) can depend on the danger level of the target, the more shinies he's toting, the more get tossed by the skill.

One of the things that sparked this idea was the fact that hoarding healers like Cigowyr and Lendorav can evade Keepers mad easy by heavens gating behind an army of aggro mobs in Shadun Dagul or Redhorne. This skill would help liberate some of the rares these healers have when they fight Keepers.

If replacing atonement, the skill would also have a semi-atonement affect in that the target would lose whatever benefit those rare items give him.

Without a doubt there should be a long cool-down before a Keeper can use this skill again so that he can't scourge his prey into non-dangerhood.

I can see this skill will probably generate negative feedback from the hoarders, but hoarders are a detriment to the game anyway taking rares out of circulation but never using them, or only using them with a nice safe gangbang group.
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Ergorion



Joined: 16 Mar 2007
Posts: 2156

PostPosted: Mon Aug 03, 2009 4:45 pm    Post subject:

Damn it. Another no-edit forum.

I was just thinking about the pendulum-balance thing when I got an idea.

Basic idea: A concrete measurement of which cabal is the most powerful in the realms.


Metaphor for the idea:
Think back to those carnival games where you have to swing the big hammer and knock the little rock up to the top to ring the bell and get a big stuffed animal. Now picture three of those side-by-side, one for Knight, one for Legion, and one for Justice, except instead of hitting the thing with a mallet, you have pks and deaths. And instead of the rock falling back down, it stays suspended in place until something causes it to move either up or down.


Scoring:
All three stones would start at the bottom of the indicator. Each cabal having a score of 0 (and can't go below 0).

Ways to gain points for your cabal's score: (meaning have your cabal register as being more powerful)
1) A member of the cabal gets a pk
2) A member of the cabal deposits an item with your door guard or altar guard (this one might not be so good because with the way Legion has to capture cabal items, they'll be capturing a lot which will give them a higher score even if they are the weakest cabal)
3) Be pinnacled (each level fifty in a cabal could add some arbitrary number of points to the cabal's base score)

Ways to lose points for your cabals score:
1) Die
...
I'm kind of struggling on how to lose points. But I don't think losing points is as vital to the system as the gaining points mechanism.


Who is the most powerful?
You could make certain point differentials be cause for different levels of Keeper involvement.

Quote:

0-5 point differential = no involvement

6-10 point differential = Keepers help lower-ranked cabal members when they're getting ganked by members of the dominant cabal

11-15 point differential = Keepers target the highest ranking officials in the dominant cabals (Knight is simple enough, you can see who is General, and who is Footman. Legion and Justice is a different matter. Maybe rank four and five (possibly rank three) can have some flag if their cabal is dominant).
Keepers also help non-pinnacled members of the weak cabal rank.

16-20 point differential = Keeper attacks all members of the dominant cabal, but does not use numbers against them.

21+ point differential = open season on all members of the dominant cabal. Keepers can use numbers against the highest ranking officials and stuff.



When do the indicators reset?:
I think the indicators should reset with each month, and also when a rank four or five member of the cabal deletes.

Conclusion:
Obviously the numbers I made up are exactly that, made up. It would taking tweaking to get those scores and when Keepers get involved down. However, I think something like this where cabals are assigned points based on how many people they kill and how many pinnacled members they have would help provide a more concrete set of guidelines for Keepers than they have now.
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Stiehl26



Joined: 16 Jan 2004
Posts: 691

PostPosted: Mon Aug 03, 2009 7:13 pm    Post subject:

I was actually thinking that their powers should scale down if they are the "dominant" cabal. If Legion, Knights, and Justice have 3 active members, and Keepers have 6, then I would think that there is not as much of a need for the powers that they have been granted for keeping the balance be as potent. Now if you would like to delete, then more power to you...that would be some awesome RP.
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_Clifton_
Emissary


Joined: 08 Dec 2005
Posts: 1405
Location: your and you're are not the same. they're, there, and their are not the same. learn to english.

PostPosted: Mon Aug 03, 2009 7:17 pm    Post subject:

If Knights, Legion, and Justice are all down in the dumps, there wouldn't be any reason for Keepers to attack them so cabal skills are effectively 0. I don't think a level 50 keeper pk'ing a 42 Legion without provocation would go over well at all. In fact, I think Keepers are the only cabal that Legionnaires are allowed to rank with - at least this was the case a year ago.
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Arishel



Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 417
Location: Alpharetta, Ga.

PostPosted: Wed Aug 05, 2009 5:31 pm    Post subject:

Way to lose points for your cabal:

1) Die.

2) Item is taken by another cabal, which adds a swing affect in the balance. (Items use to drain cabal banks at one point, maybe plug this into cabal score instead of cabal bank. Draining the overall score of the cabal while a member of that cabal is trying to get the item back.)

3) By how many people you have buying protection, Oathing, or using constables. (Maybe this should be in the way to gain points.)

4) Invading on the Keeper cabal will cause you to lose points, unless they have a cabal item for some reason.

5) The longer your cabal bank sits under 500k the more points you start to lose over an amount of time.

Just a few ideas while i'm on my lunch break. Anyway, back to work! Hope it helps.
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Erlwith



Joined: 22 Mar 2006
Posts: 1626

PostPosted: Fri Aug 07, 2009 4:18 pm    Post subject:

I’m thinking of a 4 Tier system. Tiers will allow Keepers more flexibility and room for judgment. The requirements for Tiers will be static so that if all the cabals are seriously suffering, and thus are all part of Tier 1 the Keepers know if they should involve themselves in fights or allow things to run their course. The same goes for the higher Tiers. This involves more dynamic in which cabal to help if any. If Knights are presently on top but two legion are gangbanging a Justice, do Keepers help or not? With the Tier system they can see exactly which cabals are more powerful than others or if they are pretty equal. This gives Keepers a more clear perspective so they’re not just warring with any cabal that’s currently on top.

Tiers can be made up of uniform requirements that reset at the end of each month and a wildcard that is permanent. All the requirements count equally towards the Tier and the wildcard counts for 2:1. To enter a Tier you need a total of 5 requirements, or 3 requirements and a wilcard. For this to work all the cabal (keepers not included) stats would have to go into a pool. All cabals start at Tier 1.


So, requirements for Tier 2:
    25% - 44% of overall cabal membership
    25% - 39% of overall cabal kills
    11% - 30% of overall cabal deaths incurred
    25% - 49% of membership are dangers
    25% - 49% of overall cabal hours

Wildcard:
    Legion: Captured at least 25% of overall cabal item captures.
    Justice: 10% - 24% of total Justice kills landed by special guards including out of range
    Knights: 25% - 54% of total Knight kills are on un-flagged


Tier 3:
    45% - 64% of overall cabal membership
    40% - 74% of overall cabal kills
    6% - 10% of overall cabal deaths incurred
    50% - 79% of membership are dangers
    50% - 74% of overall cabal hours

Wildcard:
    Legion: Captured at least 55% of overall cabal item captures.
    Justice: 25% - 49% of total Justice kills landed by special guards including out of range
    Knights: At least 55% - 69% of total Knight kills are on un-flagged



Tier 4 status is active war with that cabal. They fight the members as if they were all marked:
    65% + of overall cabal membership
    75% + of overall cabal kills
    5% or less of overall cabal deaths incurred
    80% + of membership are dangers
    75% + of overall cabal hours
Wildcard:
    Legion: Captured at least 75% of overall cabal item captures.
    Justice: 50% + of total Justice kills landed by special guards including out of range
    Knights: 70% + of total Knight kills are on un-flagged



Wildcard counts should include the last month and the current month. All months prior to that get reset at the end of the month.


Also, with the danger flag. You should show all dangers on the who list and have the “top priority” danger be highlighted in red or something, like PK used to be.
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