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The event "The Assault on Taekir" is beginning in 1 day, 4 hours.

Fixed some "gate spots" (heavens gate)
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Davairus
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Joined: 16 Jan 2004
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 10, 2009 12:24 pm    Post subject: Fixed some "gate spots" (heavens gate)

I went ahead and removed the opportunity of setting beacons deep inside escismir e'gal and the warded rooms below shaldun. Resatimm has advised he will fix his Redhorne gating area.

This shouldn't be considered the way we'll respond to every new hiding spot in the near future... I think I'll probably just disable any attempts to use heavens gate with offensive pk adrenaline, but that won't be for a while yet. Not that happy with altering areas because of class skills, though. I'm only doing this because an effort was made to do this already and its the newer areas that are proving to be causing problems, since they aren't always standardized so well.
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Stiehl26



Joined: 16 Jan 2004
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 10, 2009 1:00 pm    Post subject:

Heavan's gate should jsut be taken out if it couldnt be cast with adrenaline. It does have a decent cast time, perhaps double that, or make it "request like" where they can't do anything during the time they are casting the spell.
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Slade
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 10, 2009 3:23 pm    Post subject:

Used wisely it is just as offensive as defensive - beacon at holy grove: dip into void and escimir if in trouble or steps away from everything if chasing. You already know a healer sucks if he has to gate behind faeries. Avoid nerfing its best (aggressive) application.
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Slade
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 10, 2009 3:24 pm    Post subject:

Used wisely it is just as offensive as defensive - beacon at holy grove: dip into void and escimir if in trouble or steps away from everything if chasing. You already know a healer sucks if he has to gate behind faeries. Avoid nerfing its best (aggressive) application.
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_Clifton_
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Location: your and you're are not the same. they're, there, and their are not the same. learn to english.

PostPosted: Mon Aug 10, 2009 4:16 pm    Post subject:

name one healer that doesn't use gate as a get out of jail free card.
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Slade
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 10, 2009 5:09 pm    Post subject:

It should do both. My spots from memory were holy grove (reasons above) or sylvan vale (run to shadar if need, or steps from seringale to chase). There are probably better dual use spots, I didn't think about it very hard. The chase aid is significantly more important than runaway though, as flight, word, and the mv spell already add up to a lot of runaway utility. Curse is nice but aggressive gate positioning really helps zerg chasing murder healers which is what it all boils down to when you have worn them down enough, however long that takes.
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Faelon
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 10, 2009 5:22 pm    Post subject:

I had thought healers already gimped enough. It's one of the few classes that needs to ENTIRELY depend upon its equipment to make any sort of kill. Dispel Magic is great unless you are only doing maims at max damage.
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Davairus
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 10, 2009 10:34 pm    Post subject:

As with many of the other changes on the list I've been compiling, this is one of the things to change that doesn't stand out as something I feel is a particularly exciting or interesting change in gameplay. Rather, its something which just comes up in complaints over and over across years, and I have the feeling that I'd just be fixing it dutifully because its very messed up.

However, I am looking to push players into situations where they are in more risk, and obviously the healer class is one of the most risk-free classes. It normally takes a lag gangbang to stop a good one from getting away. Offensive adrenaline making escape tools like heavens gate more difficult to use (if not just frozen out) would increase the pvp'ing risk for healers. A step going with that will just be casting dispel/curse changes your adrenaline from whatever it is to offensive. I am sure they could just recall to Seringale instead of gating to elf valley - and recalling is risky..... ZING.
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kammkala6



Joined: 04 Dec 2005
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2009 3:53 am    Post subject:

Changing healers to be more risky to play is a good idea, I say remove heavens gate and give them a damage spell or something that can prevent people from fleeing. If you make it more risky for them you have to make it more risky for the other guy right?
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Mummy



Joined: 11 Sep 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:46 pm    Post subject:

It already is risky for the other guy. if they mess up and the healer gets the other hand, they have to run away if they're a warrior or something (or recall). Healers have the fly spell so that makes it easier for them to chase. But if a healer gets hurt, they can just fly off/recall/heavens gate/heal.
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Mummy



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PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:47 pm    Post subject:

Noedit. Damnit. I meant upper hand.
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Jezikapine



Joined: 18 Jan 2004
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 13, 2009 12:49 am    Post subject:

I understand the grumble with hoarding healers, I really do, but there are plenty of classes that can summon from known hidey holes and it seems like the change is made solely to advantage the more popular classes (warrior, ranger, berserker), or at least remove a perceived "disadvantage" to those classes. A hoarding Healer, which seems to be the focus of most grumbling, is likely wearing limited saves gear, which means that summons should theoretically be possible.

I guess it depends on what the overall spoken and unspoken goals are for the change, but, in general, I think a better solution would be to replace Heavens Gate with regular Gate. The only reason Heavens Gate was possibly "better" than Gate was the ability to gate deep somewhere for hiding/recovery purposes which has been nerfed. Slade's comment regarding offensive uses for Heavens Gate would still be possible using Gate, and would actually be enhanced thereby potentially encouraging more active PK by Healers. Changing to regular Gate would solve the prevailing inaccessibility issues while still providing a degree of escapability.

Let's face it - one of the main draws of the Healer class for a lot of people is the survivability of the class and that is touted as such for new players. Most non-caballed Healers that I have encountered are content to roleplay and provide group/ranking support. Healers are slightly underrepresented on the class distribution page, and it's not like there are a ton of bloodthirsty Healers running around successfully PK'ing, the occasional Knight notwithstanding. My point being that the current implemented change will most assuredly not result in more PK'ing by Healers, but it will negatively impact an already underappealing, underrepresented class.

For what it's worth, I am personally not in favor of the prevention of use of Heavens Gate through adrenaline, but if that ultimately gets implemented, I think regular Gate should be constrained similarly.
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Davairus
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 13, 2009 1:17 am    Post subject:

I'm aware that clerics are picked for their survivability. Well, with illusionist and healer, we did try to slow down the gate cheese escapes by having that channeling time on it (like there is with nexus lag), but I do think the real issue here is gating away to a point where you can't be killed by the Keepers (who dont have summon) so with the change favoring the fighters, that's why. I'll consider a possible Keeper cabal skill instead then.
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kammkala6



Joined: 04 Dec 2005
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 13, 2009 3:54 am    Post subject:

Keepers might not have summon but they do have gate from keeper illusionists. Or am I missing something?
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Davairus
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 13, 2009 4:41 am    Post subject:

Too limited.
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kammkala6



Joined: 04 Dec 2005
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 13, 2009 5:13 am    Post subject:

Remove the gate then if it is causing problems, instead of gimping it. Give the healers a damage spell. You want more danger for everyone, that would do it for both sides.
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Viggs



Joined: 10 Mar 2004
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 13, 2009 6:28 am    Post subject:

Make Heavens gate with offenceive and defensive adrenadline have a chance to gate to Heaven ,, make a room called Heaven and In it have some Torn Asunder monster that scattereds your remains to the skys or whatever it says ,,, Add a lower chance of death then teleport but still a chance ,, There all fixed ,,, wheres my cookie
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Insom



Joined: 20 Jan 2004
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 13, 2009 6:32 am    Post subject:

I will give you a bon bon.
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Viggs



Joined: 10 Mar 2004
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 13, 2009 7:00 am    Post subject:

Dear God
Please make bon bon a code word for rim job
Thank you
Viggs
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Davairus
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Joined: 16 Jan 2004
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 13, 2009 7:15 am    Post subject:

I just don't want to have to keep chasing these gate spots behind aggro mobs down. Look, think about it this way. .... youre trying to retreat from an evil murderer, right? Are you gonna hide by gating to dangerous places like shaldun dalghul, that even he is too afraid to go into? Because I think if you do that, you are retarded and should die. That is an area of supreme evil, not a safe place meant for you to beacon into. The ol' beacon to the tainted valley and pass-door into the essence of evils lair (its locked to keep you out, for your own safety!) type things, ....that's been really wearing thin on me. I'll make an effort to fix these things for a while longer, but I'm not happy with a classes appeal being from the "creative use of game mechanics" (i.e. an esoteric trick)

I am going to make an effort to move some areas closer to Seringale, too, if not put new ones by it. We should be able to flee from pk with the intent to just hide/regen and not have to stray TOO far from sources of purples. I think we have probably overdone the looping and spread things out too much, so that word of recall is kinda too uber now. My ideal is you can scout through all of the areas in under ten minutes if you know what you're doing.. might recombine shadar with mountain trail, stuff like that. I thought it was a mess when I changed it but now I see the pvp advantage of having it that way. Summon used to be a good spell, and stuff.
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