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Why don't you want to make a herald
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Why don't you want to roll a Herald?
I would rather fight, and I heard heralds can't pk (this is false btw)
38%
 38%  [ 5 ]
The Mystique and making events seems like too much work
15%
 15%  [ 2 ]
I cant splel or format paragraphfs
7%
 7%  [ 1 ]
Too much time demand - heralds have to be active when other people are active to write news, etc. and I'm not
7%
 7%  [ 1 ]
I would rather other people make things for me to play than make them myself
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
Heralds don't get enough good perks for all the effort they put in
7%
 7%  [ 1 ]
None of the above (please explain)
23%
 23%  [ 3 ]
Total Votes : 13

Author Message
Vanisse
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Joined: 06 Jan 2006
Posts: 2793
Location: inside a tree

PostPosted: Wed May 14, 2014 3:35 am    Post subject: Why don't you want to make a herald

I'm genuinely curious about this. I'm trying to make Heralds more appealing as a coterie and have been tossing lots of ideas in the pool so they have things to play with but there is no point unless people would actually want to make them. I want to pinpoint what the main weaknesses of Herald are so that we can work on that. You can add your own opinions.

Last edited by Vanisse on Wed May 14, 2014 8:12 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Ergorion



Joined: 16 Mar 2007
Posts: 2156

PostPosted: Wed May 14, 2014 4:21 am    Post subject:

Personally, I'm at the point where I want to have a lot of pk opportunities and going the cabal route or the badass (or annoying thiefy sack stealing) uncaballed route is the way I choose to go. I feel like most of the players here have a soft spot for Heralds with a few exceptions and would love to see more Heralds, it's just not what I'm looking for myself right now. What I'm saying is: it's not you, it's me.
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Clifton



Joined: 16 Jan 2004
Posts: 530

PostPosted: Wed May 14, 2014 5:02 am    Post subject:

Aren't Herald powers pretty subpar compared to other cotories?
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Dogran
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Joined: 13 Jun 2009
Posts: 1794

PostPosted: Wed May 14, 2014 5:10 am    Post subject:

I chose I couldn't spell or format paragraphs, lol. The actual reason is I prefer the rp of Knights or Legion. I prefer being in Cabals over anything. Lots and lots of fun for me. I tried a herald once... I enjoyed it for a short while and then didn't enjoy it anymore.
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Vanisse
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Joined: 06 Jan 2006
Posts: 2793
Location: inside a tree

PostPosted: Wed May 14, 2014 5:23 am    Post subject:

"and then didn't enjoy it anymore" - ok, but my question is why?

powers are sucky, yes. i'm trying to push for some improvements.
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Nycticora



Joined: 09 Feb 2013
Posts: 2277

PostPosted: Wed May 14, 2014 6:26 am    Post subject:

The 'can't pk aggressively' thing puts me off. I don't like dying. If every fight you have starts with you getting buttrushed, you're gonna die a lot
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Nycticora



Joined: 09 Feb 2013
Posts: 2277

PostPosted: Wed May 14, 2014 6:27 am    Post subject:

or maybe that's just mystics since I don't actually see anything about heralds not being aggressive in the rules
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Clifton



Joined: 16 Jan 2004
Posts: 530

PostPosted: Wed May 14, 2014 9:10 am    Post subject:

I thought heralds were always a non-aggressive, passive cabal.

It'd be awesome if they could freely PK.

Either way, Heralds being able to PK hasn't been communicated very well.
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Andrael



Joined: 15 Jan 2013
Posts: 779

PostPosted: Wed May 14, 2014 1:34 pm    Post subject:

I've had... well, one, two, three... four maybe? I liked it at the time, but eventually I feel like I end up being the only one around, and well, that's not too fun as a Herald. It seems very daunting to be the only one around and putting the Mystique around. Some reasons for getting rid of a Herald character were for RP relations and all, others various reasons. They are fun, and I'm tempted to make one to try the new event system and all, but I'm not too sure where to go on that and everything.
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Andrael



Joined: 15 Jan 2013
Posts: 779

PostPosted: Wed May 14, 2014 1:37 pm    Post subject:

Also for you "can't pk aggressively" there is an RP loophole that someone pointed out to me. If your chaotic evil, it is within alignment/ethos that after someone attacks you to go and kick their face in. TBH Vanisse and Vevier hate having Heralds hide in the Taverns and or their guildhalls, sometimes it is required with some things, like in depth writing of something that just happened, but for the most part they want you out and about.

Also, Props to Irion, the one Herald I've seen recently that even when he was busy with Herald things, always offered a helping hand to anyone who asked.
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Vanisse
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Joined: 06 Jan 2006
Posts: 2793
Location: inside a tree

PostPosted: Wed May 14, 2014 2:40 pm    Post subject:

Some time ago (probably half a year or more? I don't remember) I changed the herald rules so that they can PK, but not under the banner of Herald. So you can have your own personal conflicts and all but you cannot declare a "herald vs. <cabal>" war (to protect the less PK-oriented type of players who have traditionally joined Heralds). And of course you have to do so knowing it will affect your relations with the people you can/cannot interview. In fact with cabal affiliations, I wanted to give people an opportunity to show their support for the cabal they are appointed to. It's up to you how far you want to take it.

I know that not being able to PK was a big issue for past years, and having seen so many players who wanted to contribute but getting kicked for PKing was a bit strange to me. It doesn't make sense to restrict a player from enjoying half the game when they log into their herald - it just promotes inactivity while they play alts instead. As coteries have been evolving quite a bit conceptually, I had that changed. I apologize that the change wasn't communicated well. We've been getting the non-aggressive type of player so there hasn't been any active demonstration of the change in guidelines to help put out the word, and I should probably have asked for a change note at the time.

My concept of Heralds as it currently stands is a collaboration of people who are:

1) Interested in preserving the perspectives of the different cabals and tracking the changes in power (History function): We currently have the pendulum of power showing us immediate changes in cabal standings. With the news articles we record in the Mystique, we are able to provide the historical record of power shifts, with added commentary on who's been boss, what kind of major conflicts or outstanding roleplay events may have been happening. If your name makes it into the Mystique, especially if you have an article written about you, it's usually a pretty good sign you've been doing something extraordinary. Also, aside from the nerdy pleasure I personally feel from having a whole sequence of Mystiques dating back to 2002(!!! how cool is that) available on the website to peruse, it's a great way to show new visitors what kind of overarching storylines (hello Mikoos) happen in AR, an introduction to cabals and also to cabal interactions. So we have recently started selling Mystiques in major bookshops and libraries, and of course from both NPC and PC heralds, around Thera. I have also added one to the Newbie Academy general store which you can now purchase with the voucher you get at the end of the newb quest. These shops only sell the latest issue so if you want historical volumes you'll have to hit up a Herald.

2) Interested in changing things up for everyone with creative events (Activity function): This is more challenging than history, because you're not just recording what other people are doing but you are creating something that may be entirely new. You'll have to show creativity in both the RP aspect and also the functional aspect of the event. The things you have to consider when you create events are along the same lines Imms have to consider when they create new things for you to play with. Will the settings be fair to all participants? Can all races, classes, aligns, levels play? Do you want them to? (e.g. you could create a wizard only tournament) Is there a theme for the event? (e.g. cabal oriented, religion oriented, weather, etc.) - you want it to tell a story. They can be easy events or they can be very tightly structured with a purpose. If you're an Imm applicant, and you've demonstrated that you're a master at creating a variety of successful events, I would be behind your application 100%.

3) Generally interested in improving RP in the game (RP function): As Andrael said, I want Heralds to be out there interacting with people, drawing them into conversations, prompting debates and fueling ideas. As much as it might feel annoying at times to have to take time out of your adrenaline-filled day to chat in the tavern, the aim of Heralds asking for interviews is to get people thinking about their character backgrounds, their goals, your own personal storyline that you have created or want to create. And then we take down a record of it so everyone else can see what kind of awesome ideas you've come up with.

So yeah. Personally I find Heralds could have a huge beneficial impact on AR if they were played the way I've envisioned. That said, I haven't been playing morts for years now so I need to work with you to make sure what I'm imagining isn't completely out of touch with what you want or need. For starters, I will need some volunteers to work with me to develop the ideas in ways everyone will enjoy. And to get those volunteers I need to figure out what would make people actually want to play a Herald. Hence this poll. Smile
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BlackWidow



Joined: 24 Apr 2014
Posts: 470
Location: Yes

PostPosted: Wed May 14, 2014 6:33 pm    Post subject:

There is no "none of the above" option? I have deliberately chosen not to vote in this poll because none of the options describes why I do not want to play one. Let me break them down with a paragraph (at least four or five sentences for each option).

I don't really care so much about PK or not with a Herald (though having the option is nice...). If you reach Lore Keeper, chances are unless you're already one of the best players (like pip or kato) you will get to see people who are better than you in action. And even before Lore Keeper, you can always watch fights in the Arena. Pay close attention to what is going on, there's still a chance you can follow someone around while they are fighting (make sure to ask first though!). But even if you are already one of the top players, remember that you can offer advice to people who you are watching!

The Mystique and events do take time, but all it comes down to is creativity and being motivated. With the Mystique, it does get tiring sometimes, but you don't have to necessarily be online to work on it. Creative works can be written offline, same with event ideas. In fact, sometimes this is much easier!

Spelling and paragraph formatting are not hard, and I am sure if you ask Vanisse or Vevier politely they will help you with that aspect. Just because you don't write stuff at the college level in English doesn't mean you're out of the question for becoming a Herald. Also, be sure to keep backup copies of your work! Notepad or Notepad++ works well for this (the latter in particular). Notes do disappear, and even with the relatively new ability to add to the mystique directly, it never hurts to have a copy you can refer to outside the game. Make logs of your sessions as well. Oh, and be sure to proofread as well.

Activity is important, but if you spend a lot of time on a main (especially enough to keep rares each month), it is quite likely you would make a good Herald as well. I'm sorry, I don't see activity as an excuse for never playing a Herald if you have a main you spend hours and hours playing every month. Perhaps your next character could be a Herald. Or you could have an alt buy patronage and spend time with the Heralds without actually becoming a Herald.

I'm not sure how to answer the fifth option as an excuse... Basically, if you answer with this option, you're lazy. Maybe in this case you are indeed better off not playing one. But for everyone else... Uh, I don't know what to say.

Heralds do get some very nice perks for the effort they put in. Do you think you have an idea for a new repute that people can give to one another? Heralds are the ones who come up with those. Want to figure out what a set of items does, or get items without having people (generally) attack you repeatedly? Heralds tend to be left alone unless facing evils, in which case there is no way around it. Even evil Heralds tend to get left alone by the Knights (though it varies from Executor to Executor, and on an individual basis with the Knights in general).

In short, none of these options really explains why I do not want to play a Herald right now. Part of it is my current commitments leave me with inadequate time to consider making one and keeping it active with what I am doing, but there is also the fact that I would need to make a new character and decide why that character should be a Herald.
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Vanisse
Immortal


Joined: 06 Jan 2006
Posts: 2793
Location: inside a tree

PostPosted: Wed May 14, 2014 8:22 pm    Post subject:

Added none of the above.

I'm mainly looking for any issues with the coterie's structure or function that people don't like. As BlackWidow said, a decent chunk of what you do for "duties" as a Herald (writing, event planning) is stuff you can do out of the game. Of course it's also necessary to be up to date with news events and I know time constraint is a big issue for a lot of my current (inactive) Heralds. I have already been thinking of a number of ways to facilitate that so that one wouldn't need to be constantly active but still be able to provide the information people ask for, keep oneself up to date and feel relevant rather than fish-out-of-water useless after coming back from an extended break and then delete. If I do input these changes however I still need active Heralds to mobilize Mystique and events in game. So I don't want this to be a reason to hip hip hooray make an inactive herald.
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Mikoos



Joined: 03 Nov 2012
Posts: 474

PostPosted: Wed May 14, 2014 8:40 pm    Post subject:

@vanisee - those are all good concepts to play a herald, but there needs to be a cultural shift in how players roleplay in order for those concepts to be more frequent. I like poems, stories, events and all that good stuff as well. but the majority of players would rather PK. Ask them for an interview? one or two might do it, the others will be busy running in winter, or pking or won't due to the fact their character lacks a background and the player has no idea what their character's personality is like. what's worse is that I've seen a few Heralds themselves NOT roleplay and just be goons. I do think we should throw out the cabal concept in heralds, I can watch a graph on the website, I can watch twitter when items are moved, I can use the weather command to know when items are moved, I can read about items being moved in the mystique in game, I can read about items being moved in the mystique on the website, I can ask a character when an item is moved in game....why are we so obsessed with this? The more we reward players for moving items around and killing each other the less we reward heralds and roleplayers. I'd rather see twitter posting things like "Herald A has just written a new book! come check it out!" instead of "Character has moved Item A to cabal B" throwing out a character name will do more than saying a mystique has been released.

As for incentives to make a Herald...I don't know. maybe players would be happy with a +4 light when recognized for roleplaying since everybody is obsessed with EQ. but I feel like Tattoos are basically roleplay incentives themselves, is it working? I'm not so sure. and heralds do have some awesome powers already. Maybe they could be handed something if they write a short story either on the forum or in game.

The mystique on the website is simply not enough.
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Vanisse
Immortal


Joined: 06 Jan 2006
Posts: 2793
Location: inside a tree

PostPosted: Wed May 14, 2014 8:58 pm    Post subject:

I wouldn't dismiss writing about cabals entirely, because they are such a huge part of AR. We don't announce anything about captures (these are microscale events that imo aren't really worth writing about) but rather prefer to summarize trends in the Mystique - especially since they publish pretty slowly, about once every 1-2 months. I like it because it's a bigger picture perspective from a viewpoint outside of cabal conflicts which can introduce some objective observations.

I do agree there are some areas where we can improve RP, on the other hand I have to also point out there have been a number of players doing fantastic roleplay for months now and their efforts shouldn't be dismissed offhand. I've been really impressed by a lot of the active characters I've seen.

I also agree we might be putting a bit too much emphasis on the cabal captures. Capping and its effect on the pendulum are a function we are still fine-tuning. So part of that might be for testing and data gathering purposes, and part of that might be excitement for having created this nifty function in the first place. It'll probably get toned down once the newness wears off and things stabilize.

Right now we have a type of note called "news" (which hasn't been used in so long all the news scrolled away probably years ago) - perhaps this could be co-opted for a "publication" note type? Then 36+ bards and Heralds can write publications to all with poems, stories, thoughts for discussion, opinion columns, etc. without having to wait for the monthly or more-than-monthly Mystique publish, and you guys would get some fun stuff to read or ignore on a faster basis.
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Mikoos



Joined: 03 Nov 2012
Posts: 474

PostPosted: Wed May 14, 2014 9:15 pm    Post subject:

I shouldn't sound so one sided, I know there are good active roleplayers out there, but I don't know what's going on with the storylines. We need an option to make the plots more transparent. I know when Mikoos was damned by Darkhan I was constantly spammed with "what happened to you?" now this promoted interaction, but after a while it got annoying regurgitating the same thing over and over. I would have rather posted a short story about it (in a very public way because I'm selfish) and have it permanently stored. I think if players would have read that it would have allowed them to ask more specific questions in the game.
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Vanisse
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Joined: 06 Jan 2006
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Location: inside a tree

PostPosted: Wed May 14, 2014 9:19 pm    Post subject:

Publications are a yes then?
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Mikoos



Joined: 03 Nov 2012
Posts: 474

PostPosted: Wed May 14, 2014 9:29 pm    Post subject:

this drow says aye. I doubt there are any nays. and if so they should be assassinated.
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Vanisse
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Joined: 06 Jan 2006
Posts: 2793
Location: inside a tree

PostPosted: Wed May 14, 2014 10:02 pm    Post subject:

cackle
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Kato



Joined: 03 Nov 2013
Posts: 219

PostPosted: Wed May 14, 2014 11:42 pm    Post subject:

You know what I think would be great? A way for Heralds to communicate directly with the playerbase without using notes: bulletin boards. I know this sorta exists near Mocker's Tavern, but I'm thinking put one at North Square, City Center in Timaran, Town Square in Darkhaven, Queen Victoria's Needle in Valour.

Any Herald can write on the boards (they all sync) and erase things. Especially if there is a RP-workable way to post real-world time, they can accept payments from people to post ads to look for other group members for a certain time. They can advertise events or Winter groups. Mikoos is mad at Ona? Contact a Herald and bribe them to put a notice on the board offering 250,000 gold for her death.

Let the Heralds be the propaganda machine of Thera. Getting cabal-involved Heralds was a really cool recent development, but it sorta kills the function to have them loyal to Herald before their own cabals. Cabal officers can really develop and expand their RP if they have someone getting their message out to Thera, instead of just cranking out impartial mystiques. I also think having physical boards instead of just a roll of notes and events would bring people together for more RP opportunities.

Bit of a ramble, but does this seem like an interesting prospect?
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