Forum Links 

Click to return to main page
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile  Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages    Log inLog in 
 Current Top Rated Killers 
 Next Event   Voting Links 


The event "The Assault on Taekir" is beginning in 1 day, 4 hours.

The return of the Warlords
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Abandoned Realms Forum Index -> Updates
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Neonin



Joined: 21 Jan 2004
Posts: 67

PostPosted: Sun Sep 14, 2014 4:49 pm    Post subject:

Warlords forever! It's good to see them back Smile Sorry, little late to the party with my reply I know.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
 
0 0 0
Ceridwel
Immortal


Joined: 01 Feb 2008
Posts: 3385
Location: Seattle

PostPosted: Sun Sep 14, 2014 8:37 pm    Post subject:

Better late than never....now log in for the glorious Sunday Surge and roll one up Cool
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
 
0 0 0
Davairus
Implementor


Joined: 16 Jan 2004
Posts: 10344
Location: 0x0000

PostPosted: Sat Jul 25, 2015 7:02 pm    Post subject:

Sorry for the "necro", just wanted to keep all the info about warlords in one place.

I have changed the nomagic warlord restriction to prevent against only spells which would count as an "artificial enhancement". So things like haste, armor, etc, those should still be blocked by their anti-magic under this ruling. They obviously get tenacity and forms to compensate those things.

However, I want to move to allowing restorative and curative. I will address these two separately here.

Regarding curative, I don't think it is a satisfying experience, especially at max level, to block curative. The warlords end up using healers to do all the tanking since they can't heal themselves. This sucks for the warlords, because they have all this defense and no opportunity to use it, but instead end up having to bitch out, because nobody can solo tank all that stuff. And it sucks for the healers, because they're having to heal a vulnerable target - and even worse, putting themselves at risk. They have to keep spells up to avoid bashing and tripping, etc. It is inefficient for both sides, so instead of being the kickass group it would be with sensible restrictions on magic use, its a group that spends more time sleeping than actually doing things. This is an obvious result of flying in the face of the game's design for some reason

Regarding restorative, I was just looking at the whole bat bones nonsense. It just doesn't bother me for them to use something that restores them to their natural state. They already have it. So they might as well have gyvels at that point. Its still kinda cool to have Warlords soloing or duoing vlad, Xanthak, imbessar, etc, and I don't see as it'd just stop happening because we allowed them to get assistance from a priest now.

The underlying principle is that the warlords forgoe artificial enhancements - especially for their dueling, because they want to earn their victories alone - butI see no reason them to turn down spells that simply restore their natural state, and the dynamics caused by blocking everything are obviously not healthy ones.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
 
0 1
boo,
0
Ozaru



Joined: 01 Jun 2010
Posts: 1073

PostPosted: Sun Jul 26, 2015 6:41 am    Post subject:

This is a sad day for the abandoned realms. Warlords are permitted to use magic because life is too hard for a warlord? If you want winter eq challenge a legion for his set, beat him and take it. When I read this post I was in shock and disbelief. How many people in irc spoon chat complained to you that getting eq as a warlord was too hard before you caved? If people in the warlord cabal want to get eq, play more get other people to join the cabal and take 10 warlords to winter. If no one wants to play this game anymore will we start making quests so you can level to 50 by completing 50 quests since no one logs in?

This cabal shouldn't be easy, you have to spend hours training and fighting proving your worth, being the best skilled fighter in all the land. But if you get a booboo call a healer they will fix it up for you right away. Sad very sad.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
 
1 0 0
xanthas



Joined: 08 Feb 2004
Posts: 474
Location: Atlanta, GA

PostPosted: Sun Jul 26, 2015 2:47 pm    Post subject:

ozaru, this is the natural progression of games. the whiners eventually get their way.

dava, i don't know wtf you're thinking on this one. some things you really should not change...
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail AIM Address
 
0 0 0
ewils03



Joined: 05 Jan 2015
Posts: 153

PostPosted: Sun Jul 26, 2015 3:39 pm    Post subject:

What kind of Warlord has been complaining about not getting healer heals? With enough patience, a Warlord can accomplish about anything, but if you're wanting increased healing on Warlords, maybe add something they can buy to smoke or cabal power that increases regeneration rates by 10% or 15% that can stack with sleeping bags, zerker trophies, campfires, etc. or maybe a Bandages power that works like a monks healing that has a cooldown of a couple ticks. There's ways to add a little bit of healing or regenerating without spells.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
 
0 0 0
Davairus
Implementor


Joined: 16 Jan 2004
Posts: 10344
Location: 0x0000

PostPosted: Sun Jul 26, 2015 5:31 pm    Post subject:

This is nothing to do with irc or whatever, but there is a precise incident that instigated it.

Actually, it is to do with warlords making Goron do all their dragon tanking (who will not refuse, because he is good alignment) and recognizing things are dysfunctional. I didn't discuss it with anyone, at all, even Goron, because there was nothing else to discuss. I just updated, then later said to Lorne, here, this is a description of how things are, and he was like, "ok". You have to understand that I am just going with the flow on that. If warlords were deathmarking every Legion, Mystic, everybody who used "magic" spells, things wouldn't look dysfunctional. As it stood, making Goron tank looked to me like they were using magic in a roundabout, crap way that sucks for Goron. If you think that is instead an illiegal incident, let me know, and I'll revert.

Perhaps Warlords might think about just how no-magic they really are before I look at code again. Like why would they be anti-bard songs for instance? I'm not making warlords take heals, it is completely up to them now, meaning its a policy to be set by the warmaster.


Last edited by Davairus on Sun Jul 26, 2015 5:41 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
 
1 0 0
Dogran
Immortal


Joined: 13 Jun 2009
Posts: 1794

PostPosted: Sun Jul 26, 2015 5:41 pm    Post subject:

I haven't played a Warlord yet. I really have not seen a purpose to them personally. A lot of people seem to really like them though. Personally I do see a huge difference between Divine and Arcane. When Cabals were changed to require religion that changed things, so I could see the anti magic people accepting divine aid since they are required to pledge to a god now.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
 
0 0 0
Olyn
Immortal


Joined: 23 Jul 2008
Posts: 3244
Location: Pennsylvania

PostPosted: Sun Jul 26, 2015 5:43 pm    Post subject:

I don't know if anyone's been complaining, but I do know any warlord-related changes will always been met with disdain, at least initially.

I don't mind this change, and here's why: Nothing is stopping anyone from playing a warlord who doesn't accept heals. Just RP the way you want. The hardocded block and "zap" on those spells was relatively new anyway (afaik it's still in for sanc etc). Warlords still won't be spelling up before/during duels.

Some of you may not have noticed a "big picture" pattern in many of our changes over the last few years. I'm talking aboit the game encouraging interaction and collaboration between players whenever possible. Specifically, changes like no align restrictions on grouping (very controversial when we first did it), skill gains from groupmates, and so on. The only thing that this will change is warlords are more likely to go on eq runs or not have an extremely awkward group with healers tanking. Give it some consideration before piling on.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
 
0 0 0
Davairus
Implementor


Joined: 16 Jan 2004
Posts: 10344
Location: 0x0000

PostPosted: Sun Jul 26, 2015 6:07 pm    Post subject:

I think ozaru just overreacted and didn't read. I don't know what else could be easier for a warlord than using "nomagic" as an excuse for making somebody else tanking. Goron doesn't have a whole lot of lives left and shouldn't be in that position anyway - he's a healer.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
 
0 0 0
Nycticora



Joined: 09 Feb 2013
Posts: 2277

PostPosted: Sun Jul 26, 2015 6:09 pm    Post subject:

Warlords didn't used to have that nomagic restriction. Then either an imm or a player started roleplaying the "no beneficial spells" thing. Then someone made it mandatory for the Warlord cabal. Then someone added nomagic to auto. Then it was enforced on all Warlords.

I remember back when Warlords could still be healed. I always thought the nomagic shit was retarded.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
 
0 0 0
Ozaru



Joined: 01 Jun 2010
Posts: 1073

PostPosted: Sun Jul 26, 2015 7:03 pm    Post subject:

If its not ok to use homophobic language then lets do better all around right Nyc?

I think it is an illegal incident by your own admission. "As it stood, making Goron tank looked to me like they were using magic in a roundabout, crap way "

So your solution is basically i think this is crap, but Ill make it ok?

The fundamental problem has and always will be the player base. If you can ever solve this problem and return the game before everyone left you won't have to make these one off changes that don't make any game play sense.

If you took the time to rp the change where giving warlords a skill for increased healing without adrenaline then that makes sense. but to just say f it, ask a healer to tank for you or have him heal you to tank a dragon is not a good look.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
 
0 0 0
ottif



Joined: 08 Jan 2015
Posts: 310

PostPosted: Sun Jul 26, 2015 7:35 pm    Post subject:

this is one of those things that didn't need to be changed or altered at all. non issue. they just need to find a purpose other than just ask for duels.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
 
0 0 0
Davairus
Implementor


Joined: 16 Jan 2004
Posts: 10344
Location: 0x0000

PostPosted: Sun Jul 26, 2015 8:16 pm    Post subject:

ozaru wrote:

The fundamental problem has and always will be the player base. If you can ever solve this problem and return the game before everyone left you won't have to make these one off changes that don't make any game play sense.


I don't agree with that.

Having the warrior tank and the healer heal is the intuitive thing to do. "The playerbase" is not stupid and they will find a way around things that are, and I don't think it will be very effective to call everything they do illegal. Actually, I trust that people always do things in a way that is intelligent and smart, even if they don't always appear to be doing so. Most of the multi'ing stopped immediately once I put worn steel in the game for instance. They aren't cheaters by nature, its just when you put an impossible task in front, they are going to take a different route, and if the problem is severe enough, they'll be willing to risk breaking the rules - roleplay or not, they're all gamers, and that is gambling in of itself.


ozaru wrote:

If you took the time to rp the change where giving warlords a skill for increased healing without adrenaline then that makes sense.


I don't think that makes all that much sense, if they are going to refuse magical aid and follow a code, then they have deliberately chosen a weakness. At that point it should be about giving them something that will make up for that weakness, and not about giving them buckets of skills to paper over that weakness to the point they no longer care about it (tenacity, cognizance, ram, warlord foods, are all things you can literally point to the spell or potion it replaced). Granted, a few things are necessary to cover, but they are literally like superheroes. The way that the skills developed over the years, it looks like the 1930's superman comics happened, conquer a new challenge every week by giving him a new power. To a point, sure, and I'm not saying its already gone too far, but that is not the way to keep going. The narrative is not interesting when the hero is never in any danger. I'm sure there's still some room for a good supporting character or two in the life of every occasional Conan the Warlord.


Like I said, I'm just going with the flow. If you want an anti-magic Warlord, nothing is stopping you. It is your choice to do that or do not. In fact, Lorne can define taking heals as illegal by just putting it in his "warlord code" and it is illegal at that point because he said so. He can do that right now, today. But I'm not making the game defaults to be something i think is silly. That is all. If you don't like it, campaign Lorne to make it banned by your cabal rules, and you're done. You need to understand that you have the power in your hands to solve the problem. That's really what this change has been about - I can see that you guys don't like what has been given and I'm giving you the opportunity to make a choice and self-regulate. The alternative is I have to watch/catch warlords making Goron tank the sea dragon for them and pressure Lorne to stop that, and nobody likes when I get involved. I don't think I can put it to you any better than that, so if you aren't onboard on this point, I don't know what else to tell you. Maybe I am as crazy as I am accused of.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
 
0 0 0
Davairus
Implementor


Joined: 16 Jan 2004
Posts: 10344
Location: 0x0000

PostPosted: Sun Jul 26, 2015 11:48 pm    Post subject:

Just so you guys know, I have actually seen Goron/another warlord in evermore today. The warlord was doing the tanking and Goron was doing the healing. They had an additional guy who looked to be doing damage. From what I observed Goron was actually not needing to do that much healing, so he was using castigate (for those of you who don't know what that is, its a divine power-based healer skill that allows them to do damage via a "sermon" - its purpose is to give them a reliable way to damage when their healing is not needed). It looks much better to me than to have Goron trying to tank everything himself,l scared out of his wits, with two servicable tanks just tagging along doing nothing. It looks like a very good change, one that will allow support characters like Goron a much better chance to shine at level 50, and eliminate some silly edge cases like players using level 44 warriors to tank in winter because warlords wouldnt do it.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
 
0 0 0
xanthas



Joined: 08 Feb 2004
Posts: 474
Location: Atlanta, GA

PostPosted: Mon Jul 27, 2015 1:03 am    Post subject:

You're still catering to a select few Dav... It's ok though, you're in Cali where that culture is the norm.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail AIM Address
 
0 0 0
Davairus
Implementor


Joined: 16 Jan 2004
Posts: 10344
Location: 0x0000

PostPosted: Mon Jul 27, 2015 2:37 am    Post subject:

funny
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
 
0 0 0
gomerstyle



Joined: 09 Jan 2015
Posts: 55

PostPosted: Mon Jul 27, 2015 3:33 pm    Post subject:

First off let me say i had nothing to do with any of this and the fact i was the point of discussion made me a little uncomfortable. The reason i usually go in first is because it seemed to work better with me standing in front healing myself instead of having to heal a bunch and run out rest. I agree with Dav i should not be in the front but at times i do choose to do it when i know that will be a better option or quicker option. I have done the same with knights and many others as well as Warlords so it is no change from my game. I do like warlords at least being able to heal though as it does make my job easier and makes it alot easier for them to be out front. So all I can say on this is I think the change should stay dependant on the individual warlord, if they want to accept healing great, if not then that is their choice.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
 
0 0 0
Kornhole



Joined: 15 Aug 2012
Posts: 370
Location: Melbourne, Florida

PostPosted: Mon Jul 27, 2015 5:34 pm    Post subject:

IMO-Not speaking from a great perspective here....just to get that out of the way. I am not a game balancer, I am not a roleplay expert. Having said that, I will say this...In my experience, my first interaction with a warlord was when I was on a mage. The warlord proceeded to talk down to me as though I was a lesser being, because I was "so weak, I needed magic". If the Warlords are given all these bonuses to their strength, where would the detriment be.....would not all fighters wish to become warlords? I was under the impression that magic was disgusting to warlords, and those who needed/used the magic crutch, were inferior. Having said that, I'll say this...it really irked me to see a warlord eating deer eyeballs, to mimic another magical effect.......seemed bullshit to me to look down on magic users, then use magic, disguised as something "more natural". IMO - I think the Warlords should be magic haters, and not allowed to use magic. Also, IMO there is a difference between divine and arcane. Since warlords must choose a religion now, perhaps allowing them to be healed is not a terrible idea, but IMO it starts a slippery slope...well if I can heal him, whats the harm in this armor spell? Well if I can armor him, why can't I sanc him? Anyway, sorry for the lack of rhyme or reason in this post, I just woke up. Warlords need a purpose, or focus, or mission statement or something. If their purpose is supposed to be power through might, perhaps they should be taking other cabal items all the time, to prove their strength? Or perhaps they should hate mystics, who used to be all about magic......or perhaps their hate for magic should be explained to all residents of Serin....or perhaps I need to smoke another bowl, and just log in instead of ranting here.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
 
0 0 0
ottif



Joined: 08 Jan 2015
Posts: 310

PostPosted: Mon Jul 27, 2015 7:04 pm    Post subject:

A warlord and knight just duod a good part of winter wilderness whatever. So not sure how letting them get heals does anything but
Make duoing even easier
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
 
0 0 0
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Abandoned Realms Forum Index -> Updates All times are GMT
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
Page 2 of 3

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © phpBB Group