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The event "The Assault on Taekir" is beginning in 1 day, 9 hours.

Monks just re-opened for play.
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Davairus
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Joined: 16 Jan 2004
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2015 8:24 pm    Post subject:

That shouldn't be necessary Ozaru.
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Dogran
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Joined: 13 Jun 2009
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2015 11:18 pm    Post subject:

I regret my own choices, but its not the end of the world.
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Davairus
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Joined: 16 Jan 2004
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2015 11:47 pm    Post subject:

You shouldnt be regretting the choices. Just let me know if something seemed underwhelming. Of course there is a "grass is greener" in effect.
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Ozaru



Joined: 01 Jun 2010
Posts: 1073

PostPosted: Tue Jan 13, 2015 12:19 am    Post subject:

from what I remember about tiger stance, that is definitely underwhelming. I haven't hit 50 yet and I can't buy the nice rings necklaces and bracers which I am hoping to get my damage up their with those pieces, but what I assumed offensive and defensive I should be able to do more damage in tiger than I can in panda, but I simply cannot.

My other issue with monks is some things you just don't know are up. Drunken stance if you use stagger how long are you staggering for? At least with fed panda their is a time for that. I am really hoping exploding palm will be like thunderclash to send minions running.

Lastly I got really excited when I ready the stance about leopard style, I fight a fire giant where is my cold based attack? Samething with monkey and arcane or the one that is mental based, I see no damage difference at all on something that should have that vuln. Am I missing something?

Is their a way to lore what your tattoo does, I heard that the tattoo is better than equipment is that also true?
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Davairus
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Joined: 16 Jan 2004
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 13, 2015 12:41 am    Post subject:

I think you are mistaken about tiger style. The reasons I think you are mistaken are because:

(A) it receives a sizeable bonus to its martial arts A and kickboxing A damage.
(B) it has a kick damage bonus
(C) it has an active skill which is damage.

I don't know if this is really there is a problem or whether its just the damage differences aren't as pronounced as you expected. When you take a graze jab, and double it, its still a graze. Probably a poor example but their weak attacks deal lower damage in general, due to the fact they deal more attacks period. This seems like a weird thing to come back and report.

The cold attacks take effect for a couple rounds after you activate style. Also that doesn't stack with fist of fury. Be careful you didn't override it. I haven't gotten a chance to fix this yet.
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Ozaru



Joined: 01 Jun 2010
Posts: 1073

PostPosted: Tue Jan 13, 2015 1:34 am    Post subject:

The one thing that is really complicated now about monks is that you seem to have to keep using the stance to get the extra benefit. If I am fighting a fire giant warrior I have to keep using leopard if it makes sense over and over rather than just wielding an ice staff. I think I assumed this class may be easier to use, but clearly there are a ton of nuances to discover
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Ozaru



Joined: 01 Jun 2010
Posts: 1073

PostPosted: Tue Jan 13, 2015 1:37 am    Post subject:

btw I haven't noticed any difference with leopard attacks and fists of fury is only for offensive...
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Ozaru



Joined: 01 Jun 2010
Posts: 1073

PostPosted: Tue Jan 13, 2015 1:39 am    Post subject:

sorry there is a difference, jsut not what i was expecting
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Ozaru



Joined: 01 Jun 2010
Posts: 1073

PostPosted: Tue Jan 13, 2015 1:41 am    Post subject:

sorry for the multiple posts, I just have so many questions...
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Ergorion



Joined: 16 Mar 2007
Posts: 2156

PostPosted: Tue Jan 13, 2015 2:03 am    Post subject:

Let's just all have fun experimenting and killing each other with monks. It'll be like that one time I dropped mad acid.
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Nycticora



Joined: 09 Feb 2013
Posts: 2277

PostPosted: Tue Jan 13, 2015 2:42 am    Post subject:

it would be best to move it to a discussion thread in the battlefield and talk about it amongst yourselves with imms staying out and observing as much as possible

if you're always asking dav directly he'll always have to do a cost/benefit on whether or not he should tell you and whether just saying how stuff works straight up will ruin the fun of learning a new class for the pbase as a whole
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Davairus
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Joined: 16 Jan 2004
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 13, 2015 5:55 am    Post subject:

Some feedback has been good. We found out today that monks have no mana regen while standing, which was a heavy-handed way to make them meditate. Obviously that had to go. Let me know if you see anything else stupid, and don't assume that I intended any of it. I'd like to know how healing is doing.

Its been discussed to do away with empower requirements for styles, but I don't want to try to butcher anything else up while I'm getting nasty surprises back from the past.


Also just a reminder that anatomy skill matters. If your damage seems really low, that could be why.
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Davairus
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 15, 2015 6:49 am    Post subject:

I've buffed drunken style a tad. As you probably are aware, there is an anatomy damage bonus. I increased this for drunken style, under the condition that the opponent must be affected by berserk or frenzy. I'm looking for something to give them a little extra oomph in drunken style when the opponent is coming in ham on them. That's the situation where I want to ensure that drunken style will shine best.

Also improved stagger vs rage. I dont wish to put the damage bonus on rage because I rather view it as a fighting style itself (like wolverine), its something they've trained and it isn't just a brawl technique
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Davairus
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2015 10:12 am    Post subject:

I reworked some monk stuff tonight, i made martial arts A give chance to modify their martial arts B, instead of adding an attack. Same goes for kickboxing A. These are the pros and cons of doing this.


Pro:
1. The "normalizing constant" can be dropped.
2. The math is way easier to understand this way - instead of giving attacks a chance to happen, we're giving them a chance to be either slightly weak or very weak. So parity is easy to see (for everybody), and it still looks like monk damage.
3. The "low" attacks can be more powerful since we're not dividing all damage by a multiplier now.
4. Fixed low levels where monk was unfortunately necessarily UP due to high levels. This is something you guys could've remedied by using a weapon though. Its still a little worth using a weapon until you have sufficient monk skills
5. Less likely to get fucked over by wimpying opponents since your low attacks (which ALWAYS come out first) now have the potential to bite.
6. Less "spam" on screen (1 line less to be exact).

Quite a lot of pro!

Con:
1. The chakera strikes of snake/mantis will come out a little less often.

Having weighed those pros and cons I made the decision to do this update.


There are also some other changes I made tonight.

- i doubled the base (i.e. level 1) damage, and i added a very reasonable bonus to base damage for being in yang empowerment
- rearranged skill levels for a better progression. We have so many done that there's really no reason not to have a new one every level. in particular i wanted to make sure that if you head out to goblin village at 4 (like i would) you dont feel compelled to rush back, but you still get skills. So if youre wondering why 5 and 6 give lore and fasting, that was why. Fasting is something you kind of want to prac because youll be getting bugged about hunger but it wont kill you to wait. I also made snake style level 4, so, you could practice this in mudschool and learn there with it, but the poison damage active wont be too useful vs undead, and probably make you feel like leaving. On the other hand, it owns goblins something fierce, which is reasonable since everything you can find encumbers you there, or so it seems. So that's really helpful to have, and I think will really help monks make their start a lot better.
- monk start with training staff now. you can basically drop this weapon as soon as you practice kickboxing b. its just obviously better to use a real weapon at level 1 than rely on the "primary atack" which is a weak jab, and there's nothing to do with chii until 4 anyway.

n.b. if you practiced skills that you dont have anymore because you are now underlevelled,should be fine, it would just go the same as the eat me cakes do

changes i'd like to make but didnt have the time, maybe soon
- rename the yin/yang empowers to internal/external
- fix spiritual mantra
- do something about the random monkey cheese forms, because that is probably just an itty bit overpowered
- rework healing as mana use and not locked to an empowerment. Probably just better in internal empowerment will be my goal for this one
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Andrael



Joined: 15 Jan 2013
Posts: 779

PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 2015 1:23 am    Post subject:

Sounds great, but to be honest, I kinda liked the whole yin yang thing for monks, but it is a bit 'virgil'-esque due to his tattoo being a yin yang or swirling white/black spiral. So, I like the renaming.

Also, snake style does poison damage instead of blunt?

Making healing use mana instead of chii would be nicer, because it would mean we don't have a source of that we just use for making beads and countering. Which would make us choose more between meditate for bigger mana gains, or sleep for bigger health gains. I'm okay with the chakra and nerve strikes coming out less, as if you were really lucky, I've gotten the 'knock down' one every other round once on a mob (pretty broken).

I'm a bit confused on the change to the martial arts stuff, in which, I'm more so wondering, do they only do 3 attacks now? Or still the five? Because if its only three, I'd rather equip a weapon that enemy if vuln to, go panda and eat food.
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Davairus
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Joined: 16 Jan 2004
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 2015 2:36 am    Post subject:

Andrael: I thinkl weapons need some attention and certaintly so does fed panda. We broke that when we added martial arts A to def. I'm not interested in nerfing the shit out of weapons, just because they have a kung fu game, but we should do something because their RP is that they are forbidden from wielding a weapon on a living creature. The s olution may unfortunately be we have to drop it to 1 attack a round, although I still dont see why you would choose low weapon attack over 3 attacks a round that are all equally capable of hitting vulns

Yes, it is 3 attack per round instead of 4-5. The damage is what varies. Having five per round plus varying damage is overcomplicated.

things that are lol broken right now are.
1. fed panda
2. tiger style's damage bonus, although I am tempted to keep it and just make monks unable to flee because it would be an interesting dilemma if they go chii -dry while fighting in tiger
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Davairus
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 2015 4:32 pm    Post subject:

did the above shit, which included being able to heal in any empowerment. The only difference between the two is you can heal while tanking if you empower your chii internally. I changed healing to correctly focused, so it requires you to commit time but it doesnt actually root you lagged. fixed serenity too! please be careful and give serenity a try in someplace you wont get pk'd. Also fixed some bug with tattoo'ing monkey. Please file a bug if your monkey tattoo is broke (intermediate monkey tattoo was broke)
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Andrael



Joined: 15 Jan 2013
Posts: 779

PostPosted: Fri Jan 23, 2015 7:45 am    Post subject:

Sometimes, with healing on monk, i'm completely still, I get the healing light, but it doesn't heal, it just fades... wtf?
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Davairus
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Joined: 16 Jan 2004
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 23, 2015 8:27 am    Post subject:

write a bug for it in game include info tht you feel is relevant at the time

updates for tonight were the following, unfortunately not all good news but hey. We're making progress.

- chii bolt now deals damage a bit more like a harm, with a cooldown. it still kills your chii regen. you are screwed if you fail that. it also pops shields still, but I'm looking to give it a more cleric-y feel like harm.
-panda style "fed panda" now provides bonus damage reduction instead of haste
-leopard style's "leopard paw to kidney" base frequency reduced and disabled with acupuncture
- drunken dodge bonus also disabled with acupuncture
- bug allowing acupunc to be spammed over and over on others fixed
- weapons dont add more attacks for monks if hasted anymore
- grapple to-ground removed (coz made air thrash pretty pointless) this is a bit of nerf to shadows but that is too good anyway..

Messing with the defensive empower was a hard call to make. Its either offensive is crappy or defensive is diesel. I'm going with the latter because I saw our monks hosing warlords without their anatomies done.

No further updates for 2 weeks, other than bug fixes - promise. watch the date.
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Andrael



Joined: 15 Jan 2013
Posts: 779

PostPosted: Fri Jan 23, 2015 9:36 am    Post subject:

Out of curiosity, are you going to make air thresh usable in both empowerments? Because it would make sense, since you put air thresh as 'CRANE STYLE's grand master skill... I mean, if you don't like how it does tons of damage, reduce the damage for yin. Like, into the ground. I just want a way to knock someone out of the air, like a spell caster, when I'm getting lighting bolts, rends, sprays or whatever to the face so I can trip them.

I mean if I can grapple them while they are flying, yeah sure, great. But grapple is actually pretty hard to land quite a bit. I've had it land about 2 out of seven times I've used it in a fight once. And yes they were flying.
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