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The event "The Assault on Taekir" is beginning in 1 day, 2 hours.

Warrior buff think tank
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Stephen2Aus



Joined: 02 Jan 2014
Posts: 122

PostPosted: Sun Feb 28, 2021 6:45 am    Post subject:

Right now, hamsandwich's view is making sense to me. But only because I've been underwhelmed by overhead. Once I try it at 50 with better gear, I'll be able to offer a better point of view.
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Davairus
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Joined: 16 Jan 2004
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 28, 2021 9:51 am    Post subject:

You guys are more than capable of appreciating that fighting some lowbie sanced mob with a crappy weapon is by far NOT the same as catching somebody with instant surprise overhead at level 50 decked in full titanium tenor or visage of pain or other 65 damroll eq. There's logboards to look at this on. We nerfed it. Making overhead like current clobber is absolutely out of the question.

Can we get back on a useful track of discussion now.. this month and a half will go by very quickly I assure you
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lionSpyre



Joined: 07 Sep 2015
Posts: 106

PostPosted: Sun Feb 28, 2021 2:55 pm    Post subject:

I'll chip in my two scents for what it's worth. In short, I think the reduction to the wind-up by 1 second is the right call for now, and then let the player-base test to see if it's a major improvement. The one thing I'm worried about with this is how many warrior switch to 2h with double-grip, which makes for a one-round lag-time. Couple that with the 2 second delay that overhead is going to bring, and it still may prove ineffective at catching people in the same way barrage or sideswipe does.

An idea I want to put out there... what if you can control the windup time on the overhead? And the degree to which you windup dictates its efficacy. It's been a hot minute since I rolled a warrior, but I seem to remember that overhead crush, if it hits successfully, has a chance to lag, rake, and/or disarm. So, if you can choose a windup time of 0, 1, or 2 seconds, it will increase the chance of any of those three things happening.
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Bladefury

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Joined: 11 Jun 2012
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 28, 2021 10:34 pm    Post subject:

lag reduction is a great idea. instant won't work because i guess you're right it's OP but dropping it to 1 second or 1.5 to compensate for the double grip concentrate lag transfer would make the total lag use on skill 2.5-3 rounds. I can say that vaelsram in tenor i did oblits wither overhead mastered.
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hamsandwich



Joined: 08 Jan 2019
Posts: 241

PostPosted: Mon Mar 01, 2021 12:01 am    Post subject:

I meant 100% like clobber. Not just no windup. Like identical to clobber. So please explain why that is broken, Dav? How is it ok for rogues to have the skill but not warriors? They can also have 65 damroll. Chul literally does.
If that means overhead does less damage than it supposedly does now then oh well. Make it the same as clobber. Easy solution and balanced. Because clobber is balanced. Right?

Or if you just want to reduce the windup time then thats fine. But you're going to toy with it and it's going to be reduced too much and then reduced not enough and back and forth because no one is going to agree.
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Davairus
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 01, 2021 7:24 am    Post subject:

Why're we bringing the thief skills into a warrior thread? What you missed is that their 2H "automatic disarm" skills play into the fact that disarm was already easy as pie anyway. There is no need to match weapons to pull double disarm with overhead crush...making it easy mode. If I made overhead like clobber, it would literally be a huge nerf to overhead. You should take the -1 second windup IMO
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Bladefury

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 01, 2021 11:51 am    Post subject:

I'll take the -1 second windup. Has this been implemented already cause j feel like it has my overheads seem to proc faster
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Ashlyn



Joined: 20 Oct 2006
Posts: 280

PostPosted: Thu Mar 04, 2021 10:19 pm    Post subject:

So, was kicking around a few warrior ideas in Discord.

Warriors gain passives for maintaining style advantage:
Defensive style advantage allows on shield block chance to auto sideswipe

Dual wield style advantage allows on dual parry or riposte chance to auto barrage

Two-hand style advantage allows on parry or riposte chance auto hobble

Frees the warriors up to use their lag to do other things like kick, dirt kick, bash, trip, etc.
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Stephen2Aus



Joined: 02 Jan 2014
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 05, 2021 7:56 am    Post subject:

Gut reaction is that it's OP like this is a big advantage. Sideswipe is so great, good damage, weapon rake and knockdown. I'd love free sideswipe, but also, I'd hate this against me, would feel too tough.

IDK if warriors are that far behind everyone else. Maybe they are, I truly don't know.
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Stephen2Aus



Joined: 02 Jan 2014
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 05, 2021 7:58 am    Post subject:

Re-reading, I can see you say "on foo" have a percentage chance to proc.

That makes sense, in that it's random and a bit uncommon.

Would certainly feel awesome when it happened, and make combat style even more important.
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Bladefury

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 06, 2021 2:57 am    Post subject:

Ehh op I think.
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Arunore



Joined: 05 Aug 2014
Posts: 200

PostPosted: Tue Mar 09, 2021 12:59 am    Post subject:

Makes me think of a Warrior Specialization skill. Maybe you could only choose one of those to do auto-stuff.

Or the Warrior Specialization skill could be something entirely different. Combat Defenses or something. You already have Favoured Weapons so something like that could potentially sync up nicely with it.
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Ashlyn



Joined: 20 Oct 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 09, 2021 2:02 am    Post subject:

Maintaining advantage is difficult against anyone with a modicum of skill. Also won’t work against mages with weapon ward and shaman with head(picture mick foley as Mankind). Would give them a shot against paladins, only classes I worry about auto procs hurting is monks and healers but maybe block and prudence can stop.
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hamsandwich



Joined: 08 Jan 2019
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 11, 2021 12:37 pm    Post subject:

Monks can switch styles even while blind, so as long as they're aware of the style before being blinded they could change appropriately. Which brings up my main concern about auto-proccing. Warrior dirt kicks you and then instantly lands an auto hobble? Auto sideswipe? That's some ridiculous OP shit imo. You'd be so fucked. Dirt kick is strong as hell, if you effectively remove the 2 round self lag then yeah no, let's not do that.

So I've been thinking about this a bunch to try and come up with a solid idea. We've had some great stuff tossed around in the thread so far by everyone so no discredit to that, but I worry that it will change certain under used skills but not really make a profound impact on how warriors actually play.
The recent discussion on the logboard kind of sparked a thought that then resonated with my personal experience with warriors so I'm gonna throw it out and see if anyone agrees or if anyone can follow that line of thought into coming up with some solid ideas.

A lot classes now have some form of healing or regen boost or even just consumables like scrolls/wands/etc. This lets them have a bit of a cushion or a bit of forgiveness if something goes wrong. If they get caught a round without sanc, or throw a skill and lag themselves at an inopportune time they can eat that bad round or two and go create a tiny bit of space and heal up or rest a few ticks, or something. (noteable classes that do not have this benefit to a substantial amount are classes that have huge nukes, so they are looking to kill the opponent so fast it doesn't matter).
Warriors don't really have that. Warriors are playing a highly aggressive style where they rush in and wham bam with superior timing and get a win because of their great melee and skills. Now I definitely acknowledge that warriors have the tools to do this. Fourth attack, riposte, all weapons, hobble/barrage/sideswipe/etc. They also get bash and dirt/trip (tho those are worse than rogue versions). Obviously warriors are capable of winning, they aren't a broken class by any means. But they do suffer from a lack of cushion.
If a warrior throws a bash that misses, rogue switches weapons and sidesteps. Bam warrior is fucked. He can't come back from that. One bad round and the warrior has to run like hell and hope he escapes to sleep to full and try over. Because his melee skills aren't THAT much better to make up for eating a nuke, and he can't heal it off, he gets one hp pool.


Does this mean warriors NEED something to change that? Idk. But I spent a bunch of time thinking about it and that's the biggest weakness that I personally can come up with for warriors. So I thought I'd share to maybe spark some discussion, as I can't really come up with a great solution to this myself, other than some kind of heal like the "shoulder pop" mentioned before, or reduced debuffs on berserk or whatever.
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Davairus
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Joined: 16 Jan 2004
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 04, 2021 3:17 pm    Post subject:

I'll read the whole thread over soon. Just wanted to jot down something on my mind. There seems to be issues with the blurry vision stuff. It lets you attack your opponent (i.e. murder $$) but does not let you use weapons or hold /quaff, and skills continue to be disabled. should probably still be able to wield a fucking club and attempt your overhead at this point
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Kalist19
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Joined: 19 Jan 2004
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 04, 2021 3:38 pm    Post subject:

+1 to that idea Davairus - would definitely be nice if you could change weapons and quaf while having blurry vision.

Also just want to say - don’t forget about athleticism - if a warrior has a few bad rounds and is getting low, just go run forever. It’s a super cool skill.
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