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Consumable gathering options
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what would you prefer for generating consumables?
laboratory in lair that manufactures stuff
15%
 15%  [ 2 ]
sending mercenaries/pets on missions to fetch them
38%
 38%  [ 5 ]
more manual farming
46%
 46%  [ 6 ]
Total Votes : 13

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Vevier
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 15, 2021 5:16 pm    Post subject:

Doesn't seem like that addresses the consumables discussion at all. It looks like its just more farming for midlevel items.

I have to wonder how long its going to be until you have to punch down trees to make an axe to make a pickaxe to farm ore to hope for a rare drop to make these things. Let me add that there is nothing more annoying than having to stop an entire group, or lose a member because they want to pick an herb or something, especially if you have a banner or boost up.

At the end of the day, this is only going to benefit vets who have an excess of time on their hands. The item you showed is 3-5 runs through the ruins of thalos? I have way better things to do with my time in game than that. I'd rather see us build on the systems that we already have in place so that newbs can jump into something that's well defined instead of having to figure out a bunch of half-implemented crafting recipes/imbue/augment etc.

To that end, I'd rather see the jeweler request items from a specific area and offer to barter or pay more gold for those items than they are worth to support the current gambling economy we've built. Maybe those items could be from ranking mobs so you aren't annoying people by needing to detour all the time like the goblin toes etc.
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Davairus
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 16, 2021 12:23 pm    Post subject:

Vevier wrote:
Doesn't seem like that addresses the consumables discussion at all. It looks like its just more farming for midlevel items.


This is a crafting/consumables/materials discussion. This example I posted would be highlighting the crafting side of thing, which is combining gems/shards and metal/leather together to make a pendant. The consumables side is the brewing, which is combining gems/shards and herbs/flowers together to make a potion. Gems and shards can appear in both types, and sometimes we have materials cross-over. This all helps to keep things feeling feature-rich and interesting, and add more depth to the game.

Vevier wrote:
I have to wonder how long its going to be until you have to punch down trees to make an axe to make a pickaxe to farm ore to hope for a rare drop to make these things.


I think you're reaching.

I) Any weapon in the game that can "chop" can already chop trees, and it'll remain that way. Monks can use fists, and illithids can use the power of their minds. There are three wood types, plenty to work with. Wood gathering is buttoned up already, there will be no further work done on it, except bug fixes. This is just something I see as necessary to have realism, but will be used sparingly for us, not take over the whole game. It'll be just for extra awesome lair furniture, like a personal poker table, where it won't be as awesome if everybody has bought one of them for 5k gold.

II) For ore, we already began to sell that for medals/relics, so you can get that resource just from boss kills. I saw some support in the thread for having ore veins around, but I can hardly dump them in emerald forest right? Or the mansion. That doesn't fit the area theme at all. Only herbs can work in those areas, and those are the primary levelling areas. Its also kind of hard to get around the fact that there's already a stash of metal bars in the mage tower. We can already use those in Timaran to make weapons. The 3x purples creature was a canary test for whether running into a rare ore vein "randomly" is likely to be fun and engaging.

III) The only thing that will be needed with the patterns is getting to the right vendor. They might be a few added into Winter (e.g. "poker table" pattern). But for the immediate future, the imbue recipes that need to come out of the game are going to become patterns. There's a whole ton of existing material to work with, and no need for rare drops.

Vevier wrote:
Let me add that there is nothing more annoying than having to stop an entire group, or lose a member because they want to pick an herb or something, especially if you have a banner or boost up.


This seems like more of a ..personal problem? Not everybody cares about levelling as far and fast as possible. That is a *vets* pet peeve, which follows ranking to 50 a bunch of times and not really getting thrills out of it anymore. Not everybody just wants to get the whole thing over with. If its possible to go from 1-35 in one sitting, you can to stop and pick a herb. A newbie stopping to forage a herb is your biggest headache? Come on. If they could brew the repulsion and regeneration potions, you would probably be kissing their toes for those herbs, because then you wouldnt be spending 60k gold for an hour of guild banner power-ranking.

Vevier wrote:
At the end of the day, this is only going to benefit vets who have an excess of time on their hands. The item you showed is 3-5 runs through the ruins of thalos? I have way better things to do with my time in game than that.


You are talking about behavior of level 50. A level 5 newbie could gather the stones (they can be gotten at level 5 easily while ranking), just hold it for later. That's nice as something else to work towards instead of just exp/levels. A mid-levels player preparing to run the gauntlet (40-50) is most likely to end up just directly farming it, since they will have already been to mahn-tor looking for saves and go near the area a bunch of times getting purples and magic dust. These guys are the intended audience for that particular item. This is not going out of your way as a mid-level at all, and doesnt require excessive time. Especially since I put a lavender stone on the lamia overlord. But that is not as true for a level 50, and in fact a level 50 would probably be better off just gambling some high level cravats or get a black sun medallion. I can still see a 50 combining this with levelling a new pet up, which is fast if the mobs are comparable level to the pet, so I'm not all that convinced its just a waste of time for a level 50. I can think of 5 pets worth levelling up.

Vevier wrote:
I'd rather see us build on the systems that we already have in place so that newbs can jump into something that's well defined instead of having to figure out a bunch of half-implemented crafting recipes/imbue/augment etc.


That is what I have been doing. This system began with the anvil at Maika being used to make the fiery dagger. It is older than lairs are, and older than the druid class. It has actually been around since 2013 - that is eight years old. The same system was re-used for brewing, which landed a bit better, and then recently I added jewelcrafting, patterns, workbench for lair, and finally leatherworking, and all this stuff uses the code from 2013. It is obviously important to actually have items available to make, and not just a buncha cool code, but I can't do everything at once right?

Vevier wrote:
To that end, I'd rather see the jeweler request items from a specific area and offer to barter or pay more gold for those items than they are worth to support the current gambling economy we've built.


You can type "task" at the shops and they will send you on an errand to do exactly that. Maybe that is not conveyed well but the gambling economy is just fine. It bears repeating, its nice as a level 50 to be able to just use excess gold to gamble some nice save vs neck collars and not bother with this mid-level item. Gambling isn't redundant.

Vevier wrote:
Maybe those items could be from ranking mobs so you aren't annoying people by needing to detour all the time like the goblin toes etc.


Well you seem to have ignored the most important part, which is that the lamias are a levelling area, so those stones *are* from ranking mobs. So your suggestion is to implement what I already did? I have also already added a lavender and green stone to Mindusa (the lamia area overlord) knowing people just leave all her shit lying on the ground. Unless you were talking about the jeweler thing, in which case task is working great.
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Vevier
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 16, 2021 7:11 pm    Post subject:

1. This isn't a system for newbs. Newbs don't even know how to get the equipment that is in the game, never mind going out of their way to find a recipe and hope to be able to craft it. The only people this might benefit, if you are targetting lower ranks, are the poor saps who have to sit at 25 waiting for their cabal applications to age property.

2. I also opposed adding in an extra step for lair furniture because it's already complicated enough, but that was also added in. There is a fine line between making people work for something and putting it out of reach of the players who want to get in on it. I STILL oppose making things more complicated than they need to be.

3. Task is not the same as I described. This would be a more robust way to facilitate gambling at a single mob, instead of maybe getting 2k once every twelve minutes, instead you'd be essentially responding to a demand for something from them and you get the primo rates (outside of merchant gold cap) for bringing it back. Maybe they even ask for other types of gambled stuff so there's a use for the stuff you want to pass over.

4. I personally prefer to take ranking at a nice easy pace, but at the end of the day when there is a timer on an event, people are going to want to make the most of the time they are given. You can already see this in any given ranking group: The overlord spawns a bunch of pimp equipment and no one even stops to read what was generated, they just run back to rest. Sure, you can put a loot trigger on the things you want, but you're also dreaming if you think that people are going to slow their rolls because you want to farm.

5. Adding more subsystems into the game is going to make it even more complicated than it already is and make the learning curve steeper, which is not something we can afford. We already have several ways to get EQ in the game and I believe strongly that we are better spent tweaking those systems to make sure they are fun than by adding totally new systems. You can get mundane eq, sets, rares, gambled, imbued, augment. Forging is already only done by vets.

But since the code has already been in since 2013, it sounds like this is a done deal anyway.
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