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New Warlords Balance Discussion
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Kalist19
Emissary


Joined: 19 Jan 2004
Posts: 1153

PostPosted: Tue Sep 28, 2021 10:44 pm    Post subject:

Maximus says 'My name is Gladiator'.

Gladiator is an awesome name.
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Xerties



Joined: 24 Feb 2006
Posts: 484

PostPosted: Tue Sep 28, 2021 10:48 pm    Post subject:

You nailed it, Kalist. Way better than Pugilist lol. Gladiators.

It's double too, because every time I watch Gladiator I want to roll a Warlord lol.
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twerpalina

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Joined: 16 Mar 2018
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 28, 2021 10:49 pm    Post subject:

yeah, kill the cabal that just recently got revived and make them just another Strife. If there are no badasses to pick up, what i am gonna do with my life? Roll another paladin and suck a thumb somewhere waiting for someone to make a vamp? I personally like when I have a challenge to take down some top dogs, no matter if they are warlords or gaylords...i mean Knights.

I am in middle of rolling a char to beat up all the badass warlords because that is more fun than just beating up randos, no?
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Xerties



Joined: 24 Feb 2006
Posts: 484

PostPosted: Tue Sep 28, 2021 10:58 pm    Post subject:

What are you talking about? Nothing I've said changes the way Warlords are already being played, I was just putting a finer point on it.

Sounds to me like you'd actually do well in Keepers, since they're predisposed to going after the top dogs. Roll up a druid and see if you can figure them out for the rest of us. Or Legion or unaffiliated Evil.
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twerpalina

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 28, 2021 11:05 pm    Post subject:

I think people will just get bored and leave before i get to 50 if you rename them to Gladiator and force them to play like Strife, thats all. Nobody wants to play a mud rat slave combatant and sit at arena all day. Let Warlords make war and go after the top dogs to prove themselves superior, that way if i play a dwarf paladin geared to teeth, #2 ranked and no evil dares to log on, at least i get some fuckers coming to try and take me down or i die of boredom instead and delete.
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twerpalina

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 28, 2021 11:06 pm    Post subject:

e.g. why are we encouraging even more circle jerk hand holding than the game already is? everyone is already stacking goods and evils in a fucking rotation. Just look at last weekend surge. Goodies on Friday, Evils on Sunday, zero fucking PK.
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lionSpyre



Joined: 07 Sep 2015
Posts: 106

PostPosted: Tue Sep 28, 2021 11:07 pm    Post subject:

@Xerties The distinction here between THREAT and RIVAL makes all the difference. Warlords are still going after individual top dogs, not organizations. That could make the Warlord a THREAT themselves.. bringing them in opposition with Keepers, should one ever decide to become active again.

@twerpalina no one is gutting warlords, so no need to get so defensive. We’re just telling Warlords to not gut Keepers. Warlords are getting the world thrown at their feet because their Davairus’ new project, and I’m hoping at least by getting some player feedback from people who don’t have a stake in this game that balance can be checked.
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twerpalina

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 28, 2021 11:12 pm    Post subject:

all these warlords were doing the exact same shit before tenacity got buffed to match sanc, so whats the issue? Everything else has been exactly the same since i remember, actually the forms used to be way fucking OP, with eagles flights and shit.

I dont have a stake, besides lust for PK against those who are better than me, i am just tired of people whining and trying to kill motives to PK for whatever cabal it may be. Look at monthly PK stats, its already sad enough.
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Kalist19
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Joined: 19 Jan 2004
Posts: 1153

PostPosted: Tue Sep 28, 2021 11:13 pm    Post subject:

What?

I don't think anybody has said "warlords should not be able to PK outside of duels", but it sounds like exact statement is what you are really mad about..unless I missed something (which is possible).

If you removed the warlords from the pendulum equation it doesn't mean that a warlord (or gladiator) isn't allowed to go after top rating PKers. It would just mean they wouldn't have a thing automatically pop up telling them to go do it. You want to just sit and fight in the arena? Go for it. You want to deathmark people and fatality them? Go for it. You live your best life. I'm not going to stop you.

Who would ever fault a warlord for taking a run at a badass? I sure wouldn't. Just like I wouldn't fault anybody using any tactics necessary to bring down the top rated character at any given time. In my mind the #1 rated character basically has a sign on them saying 'come at me bro'.
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twerpalina

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 28, 2021 11:17 pm    Post subject:

thats the thing, kalist, i dont know how their pendulum shit works, but it sounded like warlords should duel in arena and not PK for other reaons, at least that was Xerties statement?

All i am saying is that personally i like if a warlord comes after me, especially if i play a char that can really take advantage of their nomagic and fuck them up royally. I used to farm warlord giants on my shaman just because insomnia and enfeeblment and they could not do shit to me. But if i play a Goodie and im bored Warlord, Keeper or anyone at all who is active and looking for PK should have some kinda excuse/reason to come after me because I cant go around attacking Warlords on goodie but i would love to fight them outside of Arena where I have a better chance?

Any of that makes sense? Sorry I got carried away. I have been fucking Warlords over and toying with them ever since Occanim herself was level 40.
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Xerties



Joined: 24 Feb 2006
Posts: 484

PostPosted: Tue Sep 28, 2021 11:41 pm    Post subject:

I can see how you got that impression, but that's not what I was saying. At least not solidly. There's some nuance here.

If you consider the RP of a Warlord, at least to me, they're not really in a position to be going out and ganking people. It just doesn't fit. What would fit is seeing some billybadass and basically challenging them several times. If they keep declining, then you could start putting more pressure on them. Finding their hidey holes and popping up with a challenge. If they keep ducking you then they're dishonorable and you could justify hitting them with a [minor flag]. Then you can really go after them. In my mind [Major flag] is only applicable for people who break the terms of an agreed duel.

Now, you might think, 'Dang that's really restrictive.' And you'd be right. It is, because Warlords are supposed to be honorable fighters, not just ganking people because they're bored. That's part of the tradeoff for having no prep sanc/prot and whatnot. If you don't like that, then go unaffiliated or Legion.

I wasn't suggesting that Warlords are restricted to fighting exclusively in the Arena. If you're being challenged you can certainly request a different venue and 9 times out of 10 the Warlord is going to agree. It's just that the Arena is usually the most convenient place and people like the audience.
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Ozaru



Joined: 01 Jun 2010
Posts: 1073

PostPosted: Tue Sep 28, 2021 11:51 pm    Post subject:

You guys forget how much you hated fighting a competent keeper because their hasn't been one in years. On my last keeper, I was forced to fight warlords and knights. None of the knights wanted to fight me and I had to invade and watch them guardian sit and still die. It was pure joy killing Warlords and saccing all that lovely eq. While the only threat was Eurayel who never stuck around for a real fight. Legion was dead at the time, but what ended up happening just like what happens whenever someone dominates, people stop playing their main 50 and move on to something else.

As a keeper it becomes really boring because you don't have anything to do outside of that and usually you are solo in the cabal. At least if you are a warlord you can duel and you have a record. Personally warlords and keepers should be combined to spice up the rp and pk. Force warlords to death mark threats and start wars with cabals that are too powerful. Or if the warlord cabal is too powerful have the other cabals join forces and take them down.

If the imms really want the Keeper cabal to have a place here, they need to create a reason for people to actively PK a keeper, if you full loot/sac a keepers set you get 75 relics per item I guarantee everyone would be out trying to kill a keeper at that point.
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Vevier
Immortal


Joined: 23 Jul 2008
Posts: 1642
Location: everywhere

PostPosted: Wed Sep 29, 2021 12:03 am    Post subject:

Arenaroyals please. Lol
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Mikoos



Joined: 03 Nov 2012
Posts: 474

PostPosted: Wed Sep 29, 2021 12:08 am    Post subject:

A lot of hot air here and I think ya’ll are getting lost in the weeds. Also you do not need a flag to attack anyone. As a keeper you can attack players for being “potential threats.” As a warlord you can run around yelling BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD.

And of course you can attack them so. What are we getting at?
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twerpalina

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Joined: 16 Mar 2018
Posts: 307
Location: Utrecht, Netherlands

PostPosted: Wed Sep 29, 2021 12:32 am    Post subject:

tbh im just down for whatever creates more action in the game. i have no cat in this game besides wanting to see some dank logs and PK. Ultimately it comes down to players and their mindset, not cabals. Same as the strength of cabals will only shine when you got Rhoas in your team etc.

i just like to argue when i see a bit narrowly presented discussions.
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Ashlyn



Joined: 20 Oct 2006
Posts: 280

PostPosted: Wed Sep 29, 2021 1:20 am    Post subject:

A good point was made somewhere. Need some chaotic evil warlords to start shit with knights, and some chaotic good warlords to start shit with legions. That'll take the warlords down a peg and let Justice not be the sole whipping boy. Right now its a bunch of filthy neutrals playing dice and card games around a table until someone gets uppity.
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Davairus
Implementor


Joined: 16 Jan 2004
Posts: 10344
Location: 0x0000

PostPosted: Wed Sep 29, 2021 3:11 am    Post subject:

Both Olyn and I are happy with the current warlord / keeper arrangements. SOMETIMES i do not feel comfortable with where the pendulum is pointing but its like the arena being in seringale, do warlords butt heads with justice? absolutely, but we want the arena, so we de-escalate any justice shit. there are some people who join justice who are just noobs that think warlords have something to prove so should get wanted. wrong again idiots. the arena is important and theres a bridge there that we dont want to burn. same with the keepers. warlords built a bridge after seeing knights bullying keepers and ignoring the tournament. theres no more to it than that. more will be revealed but i am done with the keeper part for now. they help with the pendulum because its the right thing to do, not because of game code. knights could have done it. also all i see knights do is go back and forth with legion calling each other cowards. not my pig.. ill just continue to work on stuff warlords ask about which has been requests for 2v2 duels and the like
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