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Rangers

 
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Merlandox



Joined: 31 Mar 2016
Posts: 258

PostPosted: Thu Mar 31, 2016 8:02 am    Post subject: Rangers

Hi guys, I thought the battlefield forum is kind of dead. I thought the Battlefield forum is a palce for discussions to take place and where new players can gain insight on certain classes through this discussion. I thought I would like to kick start certain discussion on classes that in my humble opinion are now considered either underpowered or overpowered. Let me start off with rangers! (if you guys favour such threads, then we can move on to others!)

note: Please do not bash each other here, keep things civil guys.....

Rangers (Underpowered):

Since returning to AR, I thought the recent changes to rangers gimped it really hard and I was actually genuinely surprised that Morzan did really with a ranger. Still I thought it was worth sharing why I felt rangers were gimped.

1. Change to dirt kick.

Previously, dirt kick could keep a person in combat. With the stumble lag taken away, dirt kick could no longer keep someone in combat. If I get dirted, I flee and run it off. This change is huge because other classes can benefit from combat skills but rangers has almost nothing to make up for it.

This results in Rangers having to flee murders non stop and flee murders kind of suck against classes with counter (warriors and monks)

2. Changes to carve (arrow vulnerabilities)

I noticed that phanstasmal griffon arrow no longer give mental arrows. Carve no longer gives the elemental properties that comes with carving in the past.

I thought this was also huge. With bows unable to expoit vulnerabilities to others, the damage output of ranger's 2 handed weapon was weakened significantly I would say. Example, in the past, I could carve fiery daggers and get fire arrows against undead vampires for example. Now, I cant and cannot exploit their vuln.

3. Changes to armor efficiency:

Pets now deal significantly lower damage due to the AC changes. In the past, falcons were favoured because they hit really hard and were easy to obtain. Now, lower level pets are dealing significantly lower damage. This forces rangers to gain higher level pets. With beast call so difficult to master (except werebeast), this makes it tough for rangers to gain high level pets.

4. Tame

Tame has always been the weapon against berserkers for rangers. If he rage, I can tame him. (tame is hard to master and the penalty for failing tame is already huge) Now mania raged berserkers or wolf trophy prevents tame from working on berserkers. Again comes back to all the discussions on berserkers being OP, it goes back to flee murders. But as Dav says, flee murders in itself requires luck. There is a change that the berserker swings everything in the room as you walk in and you get drawn into combat without murder working. If bash hits you, that is a guaranteed 3 round lag in rage (usually ends up in you being dead). As such, I have no answer to raging berserkers other than hiding behind imbessar and cower in fear or taking the risk for flee murders and praying to god RNG works in your favour.

Of course there are those smaller little issues like quick wield being utterly useless other than making macros eaasier for rangers etc, but I will just list the more major points that I feel.

I thought that rangers are kind of underpowered now, especially against warrior based classes like berserker, warriors, monks.

What do you guys think?
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Vanisse
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Joined: 06 Jan 2006
Posts: 2793
Location: inside a tree

PostPosted: Thu Mar 31, 2016 2:01 pm    Post subject:

you can still carve elemental arrows... not sure why you think otherwise?
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Ergorion



Joined: 16 Mar 2007
Posts: 2156

PostPosted: Thu Mar 31, 2016 3:34 pm    Post subject:

I think dual parry with the ranger's dual enhanced is still a really big factor in why they are still a solid class.

I don't know if anyone has exploited the watery eyes with a solid dual disarm yet, but that would leave someone practically defenseless so if someone came back to combat right after rubbing dirt out thinking they were okay, they'd get boned hard.

Bows are still l33t.

Camo.
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kento
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Joined: 03 Nov 2004
Posts: 338

PostPosted: Thu Mar 31, 2016 5:30 pm    Post subject:

I have always believed rangers are overpowered. I believe they are an unnerfable class, that will always be superior to a lot of others regardless because they are warrior types with pets. Enhanced off hand damage, and the fact dirt now goes through protective shield, and disarm knocks weapons to the ground, essentially voids any argument as far as I am concerned that they aren't OP.
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Davairus
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Joined: 16 Jan 2004
Posts: 10344
Location: 0x0000

PostPosted: Thu Mar 31, 2016 5:34 pm    Post subject:

what "AC changes" are you talking about?
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Merlandox



Joined: 31 Mar 2016
Posts: 258

PostPosted: Thu Mar 31, 2016 11:34 pm    Post subject:

Vanisse: I tried carving the dream catcher and I got arrows that does pierce damage. Got a shock, but did not try the others. Perhaps the others still work, will try it.

Ergorion: In theory double disarm is lethal. The time that eyes watering is pretty short actually, it is hard to capitalise on that. The timing of rubbing dirt is also not standard, sometimes faster sometimes slower. (Correct me if i'm wrong) As such, it is hard to know if someone actually tried fighting you with eyes watering. Would you attempt a double disarm without knowing he was eyes watering? (you'll never know for sure.)

Dav: I say this because I remembered reading a post about AC scaling being strong at lower AC and tapering off at higher AC. I forget exactly the entire content of the post. (I will try to find it) I also say this because falcons used to deal disembowells without sanc if i'm not wrong. Now they deal significantly less damage.

Anw, cool, the battlefield is getting more active now! Lol.
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Ergorion



Joined: 16 Mar 2007
Posts: 2156

PostPosted: Fri Apr 01, 2016 12:18 am    Post subject:

Would I attempt to double disarm without knowing whether their eyes are watering or not? Absolutely. 100%.

That skill can be lethal when used even without someone being under the affect of dirt kick you just have to time it right.

Killing a paladin is not hard. You just outdamage them and lag skills.
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Merlandox



Joined: 31 Mar 2016
Posts: 258

PostPosted: Fri Apr 01, 2016 12:25 am    Post subject:

Ok, sounds legit. Attempt double disarms, will try it out.

quote "Killing a paladin is not hard. You just outdamage them and lag skills."

What lag skills are you referring here?
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Xenyar
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Joined: 26 May 2010
Posts: 596

PostPosted: Fri Apr 01, 2016 1:05 am    Post subject:

The paladin comment...He's quoting something fireballe2 said a long time ago.
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Ergorion



Joined: 16 Mar 2007
Posts: 2156

PostPosted: Fri Apr 01, 2016 6:09 am    Post subject:

The paladin comment is indeed a Fireballe2 quotation. One of the greatest players to have ever played this game. Y'all should take notes.

And no, I am not saying dual disarm is a l33t skill that will pwn face. You should not complain when you try to dual disarm a fucking polearm wielding paladin and then whine to me saying: "Yo!! I tried that fucking dual disarm skill and now I'm fucking D-E-D dead!"

No. What I'm saying is, if you use it right you're gonna fucking face pwn some n00b.
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Nycticora



Joined: 09 Feb 2013
Posts: 2277

PostPosted: Sat Apr 02, 2016 12:00 am    Post subject:

rip fireballe2, if it weren't for imms always shitting on him every character of his would have been in the halls of the exalted
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Kato



Joined: 03 Nov 2013
Posts: 219

PostPosted: Sun Apr 03, 2016 12:22 am    Post subject:

This is my time!

(see signature)
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Davairus
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Joined: 16 Jan 2004
Posts: 10344
Location: 0x0000

PostPosted: Sun Apr 03, 2016 12:58 am    Post subject:

We need to be able to discuss skills individually (e.g. counter on warrior/monk) without declaring some other class entirely useless
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tayyah



Joined: 20 May 2011
Posts: 597

PostPosted: Sun Apr 03, 2016 2:10 am    Post subject:

also just an fyi, dirt kick is great on a ranger, because it goes through protective shield again( or now?), so you can just dual wield with full pets dirt kick mages and communers. and just use the fact that they don't have blind fighting.
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Dogran
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Joined: 13 Jun 2009
Posts: 1794

PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2016 10:30 pm    Post subject:

Rangers are very buff. You just have to know how to play them correctly. I had zero problems on Morzan. The only class I did not like fighting was berserkers. Illus were a pain but only because they could escape so easily. I died 4 times to players on Morzan. Once against A fully decked Necro which I got ahead of myself and did not watch sanc, once against a vampire that I still have no idea how I lost to (he was dual wielding against summersong during the day, the whole fight) and lastly to Krite a berserker who captured the crown and got a rage in when I was trying to collect purples at low health. 4th death was an illu/vampire combo kill and I didn't have enough mental saves... LOL All in all, if more people were around when I played Morzan I would have had many more kills and probably a few more deaths. Nothing at all wrong with Rangers.
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divsky
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Joined: 13 Mar 2004
Posts: 1054
Location: Iowa City, IA

PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2016 11:32 pm    Post subject:

I honestly feel like the ranger class might be the most balanced class in the game. I don't understand how anyone is complaining.
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Nycticora



Joined: 09 Feb 2013
Posts: 2277

PostPosted: Wed Apr 06, 2016 9:56 pm    Post subject:

By "AC changes", the OP is probably referring to power creep on items.

We did gradually increase AC on a large number of items that had worthless AC (and removed it entirely on items that weren't supposed to have it like jewelry). Because items are now more balanced in general, there are fewer players running around with a suit of equipment that gives them trash for armor class values. Items that sound like they have a lot of AC on them now actually do, and if they had too many other stats to give them that AC value their names were changed to look less protective or the stats were decreased to allow the AC. The result is that inexperienced (and bad) players are more able to itemize and have better stats than they used to because equipping yourself is now more intuitive.

I'd believe that falcons do significantly less damage to most players at levels 20-40 now than they did 10 years ago.

I don't think this is a problem since rangers themselves are also way more buff than they used to be, so the pets don't have to be as strong to pick up the slack. If I'm wrong, we could probably target the exact problem by adding an "armor penetration" ability of some sort and giving it to falcons.

Rangers should not have lag skills. Lag on flee was an extreme measure made in an attempt to combat some extreme problems elsewhere in the game. The fact that it made rangers able to keep an opponent locked in combat was a sad accident.
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Nycticora



Joined: 09 Feb 2013
Posts: 2277

PostPosted: Wed Apr 06, 2016 9:59 pm    Post subject:

oh yeah one more thing, adrenaline nerfing hide and camouflage is affecting rangers, thieves, and shadows. We know about it and have been trying to come up with a fix for a long time. It's not easy Sad it's kind of fucked
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Merlandox



Joined: 31 Mar 2016
Posts: 258

PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2016 5:05 am    Post subject:

Nadrin: Because vamps are really strong at the moment? Too bad we cant discuss vamps. I think it's quite ridiculous you have to stack all 3 branches of saves and they have unholy str plus abyssal bulwark. Got a feeling it's gonna be :avoid vamps at night, vamps avoid you in the day. Nobody's gonna fight one another. Haha. Just me ranting.

Nycticora: i think changes to hide camou etc were great, i dont believe in any classes having a one button escape.

Well, if everyone thinks rangers are great then it probably is!
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Dogran
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Joined: 13 Jun 2009
Posts: 1794

PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2016 6:08 pm    Post subject:

Vamps really aren't super strong, but we won't go there. Very Happy
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